Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE CONSTITUTION => Topic started by: beemaster on December 27, 2014, 05:39:29 pm

Title: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: beemaster on December 27, 2014, 05:39:29 pm
Which" RIGHT...  do you HOLD DEAREST. of all your RIGHTS  ?

Buzzbee and I spoke about having a forum for members: the forum is about the Rules of Our Land (sorry, but this is about American Laws and may Discuss Current events concerning the Laws of Our Land - BUT OF COURSE ALL MEMBERS from anywhere can join in on lively debate.

Here, you can debate the Amendments and Rights and the structure of our Republic. I'll start a debate, although I know it has been discussed before, it is always on the mind of the taxpayer. See you in the next post.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 27, 2014, 08:56:10 pm
I think the rights in the bill of rights are all dependent on one another.  Without free speech, without the right to keep and bear arms, without the right to believe what we want, without the right to our own privacy etc. you would have no way to defend other rights or change things.  In the end, of course, violence is the ultimate arbitrator so there would be no way to maintain a free people without them having the power to overthrow an unjust government.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Kathyp on December 27, 2014, 11:25:44 pm
I agree.  you can't divorce them.  not only for the reasons Michael points out, but because if one is more important than another, would we protect the less important ones?  and if we don't, doesn't it make it easier to let the next one go?

this is why I reject the "living document" argument about the constitution.  once it becomes a flexible instrument, it becomes useless as protection from the government.  not to say that it can't be changed when it needs to be, but that, as the founders designed it, it should be very difficult to change. 

Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Richard M on December 30, 2014, 12:23:45 am
  In the end, of course, violence is the ultimate arbitrator so there would be no way to maintain a free people without them having the power to overthrow an unjust government.


That's nothing new - People with the most guns overthrowing governments they didn't like has been the way of life in South America, Africa and the Middle East for a long time now.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: beemaster on December 30, 2014, 10:55:56 am
I think from all the reading I have done on WW2 era weapons - that the US and Russian are still still playing a deadly game of chess as in the cold was. In small battles, so old they aren't news worthy and many head-line news clips show militia using AK47, SMS, Mosin m38-44 gens, SVT40 and a lot of weapons now 70 to a hundred years in design. All the time I see ISIS with older weapons seems as many German and CCCP stuff - but by far the AK's are hung in tribal wars, on freedom fighters or rebals trying to effect government.

I know I can say I want everyone to have anyweapon you want as a citizen - but not GPS Guiden rocket launches made to fly 4000mph and hit a target 1000 miles away - I don't think "no matter how wealthy you are: save the big stuff for the military: who would always side on the citizenship in a time where they are told to go in and whipe out some looters, etc.. I sure hope.

My real point is, I can see how anti-gunners see a 4 day standoff with the police situations. Why (they will ask) does anyone have enough weapons and ammo to face off with the police and it be a stalemate gun for gun.

I'm a law abider - I may fell very different on some issues. but I obey the Law, I don't see a day when I'm fighting it out with a tank donated to a population of 8000 - I don't see a tank ready to ram my house into a pile. There are some people who paranoid, not just prepared for what the real world will present itself. Or should I say, if ANY KIND of SHTF occurs, I want to be on the police's side - which I hope are always there to protect and preserve.

Some of you think I'm imagining A shining city on a Hill. We'll never have peace in our own land, with the Faracan's the Sharptons,  the Jessee Jackson and the Obamas - all race haters. There are some angry people out there mad cause after 6 years Obama still has White People in this country - take a look at inner-cities and see the stupidity of having only one black cop on your police force. There are war-zone in many of our cities - if not all our cities. Gangs and drug-dealers that never get caught, and if they are - it only takes another hater to take his place.

This country will never settle race issues as long as THE PRESIDENT comes on TV and announces we still have a lot of racial strife in our Country - and to have a President say in so many words "The black man will have to try twice as hard to get the same job as a white man." This is treasonous - he NOW speaks for all American with no rebuttal - Lord.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 30, 2014, 01:55:09 pm
>I can see how anti-gunners see a 4 day standoff with the police situations. Why (they will ask) does anyone have enough weapons and ammo to face off with the police and it be a stalemate gun for gun.

Of course, in Mexico where guns are much more controlled, there are no standoffs and no violence...  ;) Yes, I see how they get to their erroneous and illogical conclusions... by emotion and only seeing things in simplistic one to one relationships...
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Richard M on December 30, 2014, 07:18:08 pm


Of course, in Mexico where guns are much more controlled, there are no standoffs and no violence...  ;) Yes, I see how they get to their erroneous and illogical conclusions... by emotion and only seeing things in simplistic one to one relationships...


So where do the Mexicans buy their guns?

Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 31, 2014, 09:25:51 am
>So where do the Mexicans buy their guns?

From our ATF and FBI...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal)
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: jalentour on January 03, 2015, 10:00:52 pm
kathyp and michael bush, I agree.

Beemaster, I would like to point out that the beginning of the Ferguson protests were about overwhelming police force responding to the the rioters.  The police arrived in what was described in battle gear, armored vehicles, and AR-15's with long range scopes observing the protest.  Later anarchists took over and we all know the rest of the story.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a law and order guy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-reinbach/what-happened-to-protect-_b_6282012.html
 
I just want to point out that the police are becoming militarized in this country.  Much of it is surplus material from Afganistan and Iraq.  You don't have to look far to find stories of small towns receiving APC's and automatic AR's. 
Many police forces have "overwhelming force" policies as their treatment toward dangerous standoffs. 

I know I am going to be attacked by many for my opinion, but the local police have no business being militarized.  Some would say it's OK since they are getting bad guys.  It is not.  It is a matter of time until those militarized police forces start to take more and more of our rights away. 

You or your children or your grand children may face a militarized police force willingly under the direction of a powerful anti gun politician.   What are you going to do then?  Have you read stories of how Maryland law enforcement are pulling over our of state conceal carry licensees?  They scan license plates, pull them over, and toss them in jail (even if their gun is at home).  It's starting now.
http://redalertpolitics.com/2015/01/02/gun-owners-fear-police-targeting-maryland/

We are never again going to see the day were a Barney Fife carries one bullet in his shirt and Andy can talk his way with all the country folk.  Police forces should be well armed and have efficient tactical plans for their community, especially in the bigger cities.  The should have the best body armour, dash board cams and But for the rest of suburban and rural America, we don't need that.  There is nothing good that will come from a militarized police force.

I say it is not enough to say "I support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights."  We must be active politically on local, regional and national levels.  It is not enough to pay your one year renewal to the NRA every year, you must actively vet the politicians at every level.
(Especially those school boards).

Going back to kathyp and michael bush, all of our Rights are equal and they must be protected equally.  Equally and actively with diligence.  God Bless America.

Thank you for reading my rant, I'm headed downstairs to reload some brass and shoot some steel next week.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: beemaster on January 04, 2015, 01:58:24 am
JV

Without retracing my words, I agree pretty much with everything you say. I've seen documentaries on the weapons our Federal government is passing down and then distributed further to local departments - I think it is inevitable, for one reason that has nothing in particular to do with armored vehicles, long rang high caliber weapons and full night visibility gear, etc.

You mention the issue. Our government buys "stuff", and stuff rolls out of vogue in the field and then the dilemma occurs - for that I have two examples from my own military base I have worked at for 26 years.

A rule the Feds live by is an EMPTY BUILDING ( example the power plant I started at and worked in for 13 years ) was decommissioned - it was stripped of all reusable and spare parts and equipment and there is no power, no water - nothing as far as services in this building.  BUT, this building has a ANNUAL COST because it exists, even though NOTHING is done to keep it from literally falling down. It has cost to "operate" because of ONE REASON - it exists.

This is the same fore all equipment trickled down to local police, if not at least to Staties. Getting it out of the Fed's hands STOP the cost of possessing these items. It's like owning a great Dane, costs a fortune to feed it, so give it to you neighbors and it's food cost can go to the electric bill.

The second example was in 1998 the base's admin building was slated for total refurbishment, and it was at nearly 1.5 million - a complete refurb with several hundred huge windows. At the same time, the same Planning and Estimators decided that the building wasn't worth refurbishing and it would be cheaper to MOVE the admin operation to another building repaired two years earlier, like dominoes people and jobs were moved building to building throughout the base.

So.... The Refurbished admin building sat empty for several months until finally one week, all the new windows were removed, other things inside I'm sure were taken out and reallocated THEN the building was torn down - because the cost of having this empty windowless building was too costly to have empty, especially on the huge section of land it took up. Total time from refurbish to rubble 5 to 6 months.

MY POINT - the Feds have chosen the path of "It is NOT cheaper to keep her" they give away stuff to states, and now it's the states problem, and they likely try to spread it out where best needed - hopefully troopers, National Guard and LIKE YOU, I think my local police having a tank and a dozen 50 cal equipped Humvees is not what any of us need. Pretty much everywhere you can have this equipment delivered with the people trained to use them in desperate situations. But I don't think any of this will STOP a police state. And I stick by my belief that you will see such equipment ALWAYS brought out during times when race haters want to rile citizens and yes thugs from neighboring towns there to stir the pot - it is inevitable.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Kathyp on January 04, 2015, 12:34:47 pm

Quote
MY POINT - the Feds have chosen the path of "It is NOT cheaper to keep her" they give away stuff to states, and now it's the states problem, and they likely try to spread it out where best needed - hopefully troopers, National Guard and LIKE YOU, I think my local police having a tank and a dozen 50 cal equipped Humvees is not what any of us need.

a lot of it comes down to Boys and Their Toys.   :wink:  All this equipment requires maintenance and training to use.  I think you'll find that the craze will not last when the bills start coming in. 

Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: BeeMaster2 on January 05, 2015, 01:00:14 pm

Quote
MY POINT - the Feds have chosen the path of "It is NOT cheaper to keep her" they give away stuff to states, and now it's the states problem, and they likely try to spread it out where best needed - hopefully troopers, National Guard and LIKE YOU, I think my local police having a tank and a dozen 50 cal equipped Humvees is not what any of us need.

a lot of it comes down to Boys and Their Toys.   :wink:  All this equipment requires maintenance and training to use.  I think you'll find that the craze will not last when the bills start coming in. 



Kathy,
That just means that they have more reasons to raise our taxes. That is not a problem as far as congress is concerned, nor the white house.
Jim
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Eric Bosworth on January 26, 2015, 03:38:00 pm
I tend to agree with MB. All of the Bill of Rights are co-dependant... but I think I would say that the 2nd amendment gives the constitution its teeth. The entire reason for the second part of the second amendment is because our founders knew that someday our government would become tyrannical again and we would need to fight another revolution. I hope that it happens in the ballot box.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on October 04, 2019, 09:17:08 am
I hope that it happens in the ballot box.
The ballot box is controlled when there is a Hitler or Putin.  This is the purpose of corruption.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on October 04, 2019, 11:38:42 am
You are right there. That's why we need to get rid of shumer and pelosi. Put a stop to the dead people, illegals, and multiple voters.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on October 04, 2019, 04:08:01 pm
You are right there. That's why we need to get rid of shumer and pelosi. Put a stop to the dead people, illegals, and multiple voters.

?illegals, and multiple voters.?

Yes, by placing them where they belong, jail, along with their enablers.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on October 05, 2019, 09:29:51 am
Put a stop to the dead people, illegals, and multiple voters.

When these people show up to vote why do the republican representatives sign off on their votes?
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on October 05, 2019, 11:05:54 am
To keep the black panthers from crushing their skulls with baseball bats.
They are also forbidden to ask them for ID.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on October 06, 2019, 09:55:05 am
To keep the black panthers from crushing their skulls with baseball bats.
LMAO

Quote
They are also forbidden to ask them for ID.
Really?  Seems like that should be changed.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on October 06, 2019, 10:26:24 am
You laugh at voter booth threats, attacks, and harassment?  Now you are showing your ""expleteve"" nature.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Kathyp on October 06, 2019, 06:28:38 pm
Quote
Really?  Seems like that should be changed.

many of us have advocated for voter ID for a long time.  When I first started voting, I had to show ID and proof of address.  No longer is that true.  In fact, whenever voter ID laws are tried, the left takes the state to court and gets them blocked because apparently asking for ID to vote is RACIST!  If I was any minority and a party was implying that I am too stupid to get ID even when it is offered for free, I'd be pretty ticked off. 

Now, you might ask "Why would the left want to block voter ID?".
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on October 07, 2019, 10:47:31 pm
 "Why would the left want to block voter ID?".

They did not block it in Mississippi, we voted on it in a statewide election and voter ID was passed!  ID MUST be presented when we vote here. A sad day for crooks.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on November 25, 2020, 07:50:07 pm
> "Why would the left want to block voter ID?".

So they can cheat.  Thousands of votes were cast in this last election that the REAL person showed up to the polls after the fake person already voted for them...
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 07, 2020, 06:53:27 pm
A group in Georgia has filed a lawsuit listing specifically more then 22,000 voters who the roles say voted who have either duplicate ballots, have fake addresses, or live outside of Georgia.  Of 1500 voters who were listed as mailing in votes 1 out of 3 said they did not request a ballot and they did not vote.  Looks like not asking for ID is working well.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on December 08, 2020, 08:31:22 am
So far all the law suits are bogus and not based on facts or evidence.  I don't expect future law suits to turn up anything different.  Trump surely is getting his right to sue but things are not going his way BECAUSE THE COURTS REQUIRE FACTS AND EVIDENCE.  Something he has always been void of.
The most important law in our constitution is that everyone is equal and it has not been honored from its inception.  So if that one law is broken then the rest don't mean anything according to you all.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 08, 2020, 01:53:00 pm
Well, let's see.  We have hundreds of affidavits of sworn testimony from credible witnesses... I think, last I heard that was considered evidence.  We have a video of them kicking every one out and counting votes after all the witnesses left.  Which is illegal.  That seems like evidence to me.  Then we have people going through the voter rolls and finding this:
Georgia
2,055 Felons who voted illegally
66,248 people under the age of 18 who voted
2,423 people voted who were not registered
1,043 used a PO Box which is illegal
4,925 voted past the registration date
10,315 voted who died before the election
395 voted in two states
15,700 moved out of state
40,279 changed county and didn't re-register to vote
22,000 who don't exist (fake addresses etc.)
-------------------
165,383 illegal votes

That is all still in the computer and all you have to do is verify it.  When they took 1500 mail in voters and called them 1 in 3 said they had not requested a ballot and had not voted.  That's easy enough to verify.  Get a third party to try the same.

The guy with the list of 22,000 has their names and addresses listed in his lawsuit.  This is not a vague claim that some unnamed people voted who have fake addresses.  This is a list.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 08, 2020, 10:38:47 pm
Jan 21 biden is president.  He got it honestly by getting more votes.  There were not thousands of election officials, judges and voters all in on some kind of scam that makes this not true.  To believe that is having your head in the clouds.  Mistakes are made every election but not mistakes that mean trump got more votes cause he did not.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on December 09, 2020, 09:01:36 am
Jan 21 biden is president.  He got it honestly by getting more votes.
Cheers
gww
To suggest that our system of elections is inherently corrupt is an action taken by a want a be dictator.  After a dictator takes control the elections are then corrupt to keep him in power.  This is recorded history you can read about for every dictator that has come to power.
Unlike Trump, Biden did win fair and square.  Trump got the votes in 2016 but they weren't honest.  The media was used at a critical time to sway votes.  In 2020 measures were taken to prevent this and it was successful.  Other measures were taken to secure the elections and prevent corruption.  That too was successful.  So what we had in 2020 is the most secure and fair election in the history of our country.
When does an honest man talk about pardoning his family, friends and HIMSELF?  The country has been raped enough ... it is time to heal.
With all eyes focused on the next election in GA, Trump and his followers will claim corruption if the republicans lose and legitimacy if they win.  You can count on it.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: paus on December 09, 2020, 02:50:50 pm
And VISA VERSA
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 09, 2020, 10:18:13 pm
>To suggest that our system of elections is inherently corrupt is an action taken by a want a be dictator.

To have a fraudulent election and then not allow anyone to look at the evidence is also the action taken by a want a be dictator.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 10, 2020, 01:36:59 am
It is being looked at over and over and that is why it keeps getting thrown out of court by all those judges.  The trump administration is taking the scatter gun approach of throwing every thing against the wall hoping some piece of crap sticks cause crap and innuendo is all they have.  Again, nothing as big as a general election is with out mistakes but biden got more good votes.  If they find real proof of fraud, they should put the person in jail that       perpetuated it.  They should not use it to throw out my good vote.  Trump lost while other republicans still won.  He is a loser that would throw out many legitimate votes to win fraudulently and not care one bit about democracy.

He got a lot of votes, but not enough.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 10, 2020, 12:32:14 pm
It is being looked at over and over and that is why it keeps getting thrown out of court by all those judges.  The trump administration is taking the scatter gun approach of throwing every thing against the wall hoping some piece of crap sticks cause crap and innuendo is all they have.  Again, nothing as big as a general election is with out mistakes but biden got more good votes.  If they find real proof of fraud, they should put the person in jail that       perpetuated it.  They should not use it to throw out my good vote.  Trump lost while other republicans still won.  He is a loser that would throw out many legitimate votes to win fraudulently and not care one bit about democracy.

He got a lot of votes, but not enough.
Cheers
gww



No good vote should be thrown out, left out, our flipped; Yours, mine, or any other Legitimate American Citizens Vote, not just your vote alone, which in my opinion, yours is just as important as any other citizens vote.  "He a loser that would throw out many legitimate votes to fraudulently and not care one bit about democracy?" Where, What, and Who is your source or sources of this information? Again you say, "He got a lot of votes, but not enough".  I am posting the following quoted from big lies while asking you. If the following is true, will you on the left continue to stick with your sentiments if so? I suspect the video may very well be true but I do not know.  If this video is taken down along with many others which has been taken down, along with its revealing content, (whether it be true or false) the more we should ask, why? Why would any platform, based In America not seek to uphold the Constitution including the freedom of speech and freedom of the press on that platform? Why would any platform seek to suppress our freedom of the press? And if it's not true, even the more, why take it down? Let the world see the big lie! As a fellow American, regardless of your political persuasion, I hope you are clearly seeking Truth, Justice and the American way first and foremost, above any party or group; I trust that you are seeking allegiance to The United States of America and to The Republic for Which it stands One Nation, Under God, Indivisible; With, Liberty and Justice for all, first and foremost. Seeking as any American should seek, defending our Constitution from all enemies. Standing up for our Republic and our nation. 
Quoting President Abraham Lincoln  "that this nation under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Mr Trump promised many things before he was elected. He has fulfilled far many more promises that I would have thought possible. The most important one in my opinion has yet to be fulfilled. "Drain the Swamp" Is the best for last? Or will it be instead, back to the agenda of the previous administrations plural, business as usual reversing all the promises and progress made by President Trump and his team, or even worse? 




Try this one.

Is the following, reported by OAN true or false? I do not know. What if its false? What if the witness is baring false witness on an innocent man? Very serious would not you agree?  On the other hand, what if it is true? Should not all citizens, no matter our view of politics want to know the truth of this matter? Do you?

The follow video is CC for the hearing impaired.
https://youtu.be/qZ_ks_sNITg
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 10, 2020, 02:18:23 pm
ben
Quote
Mr Trump promised many things before he was elected. He has fulfilled far many more promises that I would have thought possible. The most important one in my opinion has yet to be fulfilled. "Drain the Swamp" Is the best for last? Or will it be instead, back to the agenda of the previous administrations plural, business as usual reversing all the promises and progress made by President Trump and his team, or even worse?

The people voted.  They chose whether to agree with you thoughts or not.  They decided by voting.  I believe that over all the vote is right and that the whole voting system has not been corrupted.  I personally do not believe any state should not have paper ballots.  However, people will try and cheat and take a risk of getting caught.  They should be punisher if caught. I can not make the leap to the thought that the whole system is corrupt including all poll watchers, administrators and judges.  That is what is insinuated by trumps insistence as far as six months before the election even took place.  He could only lose if there was fraud.  He lost, get over it.  I did when he won and gave him four years hoping for the best but given another chance glad he has lost now.  Apparently enough Americans now felt the same way.  You don't have to feel the same way but don't cheat me out of my vote.  Either get proof that will stand up or take your loss till you get your chance in four years.  The one who got the most votes should win.  That is biden.
Cheers
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 10, 2020, 04:52:43 pm
>It is being looked at over and over and that is why it keeps getting thrown out of court by all those judges.

So far not one judge has looked at any of the evidence.  When suits were filed before the election they said they couldn't interfere with an impending election or they just refused to hear it.  Then when suits were filed after the election they say it should have been filed sooner.  Or they say a different court should handle it.  Or they say a different entity should have filed it.  It's a hot potato that none of them want to handle.  So far not one case has been dismissed on the merits of the evidence.  I know that's not how the left wing media spins it, but that is the fact.   I have listed to a lot of eye witness testimony before state legislatures in the last month and it's absurd to say there is no evidence.  There are now thousands of sworn affidavits from credible witnesses.  18 states are now suing and that should be heard soon by the Supreme Court.  Maybe they will finally look at the facts, or maybe they will do the same thing and find some technicality to not even look at it like the rest have done.  But it is patently absurd to say there is no evidence of fraud.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 10, 2020, 06:29:15 pm
Michael
In no way has what you just wrote ending up showing that trump got more votes then biden.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 10, 2020, 07:39:43 pm
I noticed you omitted quoting or replying to the main course of my post 31, in which I was responding to your post 30. It seems you chose instead to ignore the main course of the same post 31. Including the video which was the focus of the post 31.
Allow me to ask you a fair and honest question gww. If this video is true, and being you are an American, do you care?

> "No good vote should be thrown out, left out, our flipped; Yours, mine, or any other Legitimate American Citizens Vote, not just your vote alone, which in my opinion, yours is just as important as any other citizens vote.  "He a loser that would throw out many legitimate votes to fraudulently and not care one bit about democracy?" Where, What, and Who is your source or sources of this information? Again you say, "He got a lot of votes, but not enough".  I am posting the following quoted from big lies while asking you. If the following is true, will you on the left continue to stick with your sentiments if so? I suspect the video may very well be true but I do not know.  If this video is taken down along with many others which have been taken down, along with its revealing content, (whether it be true or false) the more we should ask, why? Why would any platform, based In America not seek to uphold the Constitution including the freedom of speech and freedom of the press on that platform? Why would any platform seek to suppress our freedom of the press? And if it's not true, even the more, why take it down? Let the world see the big lie! As a fellow American, regardless of your political persuasion, I hope you are clearly seeking Truth, Justice and the American way first and foremost, above any party or group; I trust that you are seeking allegiance to The United States of America and to The Republic for Which it stands One Nation, Under God, Indivisible; With, Liberty and Justice for all, first and foremost. Seeking as any American should seek, defending our Constitution from all enemies. Standing up for our Republic and our nation.
Quoting President Abraham Lincoln  "that this nation under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

https://youtu.be/qZ_ks_sNITg

Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on December 10, 2020, 07:42:52 pm
Under most circumstances, gww, when one side is caught cheating, the other side is granted the win. It doesn't matter about the points or performance at that point. The cheater has all points removed and the opponent wins. If they can prove ""intentional"" fraud, Trump can be declared the winner.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 10, 2020, 08:25:21 pm
Iddee
They have already proved some small fraud by a republican but it was so small that it would not have effected the election.  I think there was an arrest though.  There have been small frauds in the past by both sides but not big enough to change and election.  I think it is justice when said people get punished.  One bad actor does not make an election unless that bad actor is enough to change something.  There is nothing there for trump but a bunch of suggestions of things to look for that they can not find proof of.  It is the same things he wanted every one to look for before the election even happened and they did and are looking but can not find.  Looking does not make something a fact. Only actual proof makes fact.

Ben
Your video is a piece of crap.  What, somebody saying he heard about somebody who was talking big?  I could tell you I lost the biggest fish you ever saw.  Do you have to believe me when the fish got away and I can't show you?  My wife thought when she was young that you could get pregnant by eating watermelon seeds.  Thinking is not proof of any thing.  But you bet, I think fraud is wrong and stealing from me and others and people should be punished for stealing.  Lastly, I take my lumps when I lose even when I can't understand how people could vote that way.  This is not my first win or loss as I am not young.  The truth is that biden got more votes over all and more votes in the places that it counted for electoral votes to have won honestly.  No proof has been shown other wise and the trying to get legislators to make different decisions then the voters did is un-American.
Only one guy in the top spot showing a potential to cheat here and it is not biden.  He is in his rights to look but not with in his right to say something did happen but he can not prove it.  He is saying something that does not seem to be true which means he does not care about America like you insinuate he does. 

I do care about America.  I have exactly one vote and one voice to convince other voters and that is my due.  Just this time, more thought like I did then like trump voters did.  I can not believe he got as many votes as he did but don't discount that it did happen.  I don't understand why it happened but can recognize facts compared to beliefs.  Can you? 

Keep it in mind that I will live though whatever happens and always have whether winning or losing.  So I say what I believe with a smile and you can believe as you will.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on December 10, 2020, 08:34:36 pm
Sorry, but I won't even try to respond to all the falsies in that post. Notice I said"intentional" by the "side". NOT by an individual. When circumstantial  evidence can convict a person and take their life, surely enough of it can take a "side" down and give the decision to the other side. There is a BIG difference in "votes" and "legal votes".
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 10, 2020, 08:53:35 pm
iddee
I agree. Biden got more legal votes.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on December 10, 2020, 10:04:41 pm
Neither you nor I know if that is true or false.
 CHEERS
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 10, 2020, 10:56:03 pm


Ben
Your video is a piece of crap.  What, somebody saying he heard about somebody who was talking big?  I could tell you I lost the biggest fish you ever saw.  Do you have to believe me when the fish got away and I can't show you?  My wife thought when she was young that you could get pregnant by eating watermelon seeds.  Thinking is not proof of any thing.  But you bet, I think fraud is wrong and stealing from me and others and people should be punished for stealing.  Lastly, I take my lumps when I lose even when I can't understand how people could vote that way.  This is not my first win or loss as I am not young.  The truth is that biden got more votes over all and more votes in the places that it counted for electoral votes to have won honestly.  No proof has been shown other wise and the trying to get legislators to make different decisions then the voters did is un-American.
Only one guy in the top spot showing a potential to cheat here and it is not biden.  He is in his rights to look but not with in his right to say something did happen but he can not prove it.  He is saying something that does not seem to be true which means he does not care about America like you insinuate he does. 

I do care about America.  I have exactly one vote and one voice to convince other voters and that is my due.  Just this time, more thought like I did then like trump voters did.  I can not believe he got as many votes as he did but don't discount that it did happen.  I don't understand why it happened but can recognize facts compared to beliefs.  Can you? 

Keep it in mind that I will live though whatever happens and always have whether winning or losing.  So I say what I believe with a smile and you can believe as you will.
Cheers
gww

What a pitiful answer in my opinion to the twice asked question in post 31 and again in post 35, the question being "what if the video is true"? Anyone knows a reporter worth his salt has tapes, copies of facebook statements photos etc to substitute their story. "Crap" you say; The crap is that of the left has demonstrated and put out for over four years. "Whistle blower" they said; HAH!  Continue believing whatever bull the left has been feeding you gww, as you have been believing. :shocked: lol  :tongue:

PS If I lived close to you, I would love to go fishing with you, I love to fish. But, just like a good reporter, I would be sure to bring a camera in order to take a picture of that big fish you claim to have hooked and got away. lol :cheesy:
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 10, 2020, 11:46:31 pm
Ben
All I can say is that it was a reporter that reported what trumps new lawyer had said that kamala was not born in the us.  However, the reporter did not have back up that you mention a good reporter has.  When your good reporter comes up with all that back up and it added up to enough to become fact, it may have made a difference.  Of course it is getting late in the game and he has not and so the video is apparently crap.  Why answer a hypothetical question based on crap.  Yes, I want the true thing to happen but do not feel compelled to spend much time on unproven conjecture.  Nobody should cheat no matter who it is.  My side or your side.
Here is a smiley face to keep it friendly. :grin:
When I fish, I don't let a camera get in the way and it all goes in the frying pan and when there it does not matter if it was big or little only that it gets on my plate.  Just like my deer hunting, I like the food better than the trophy.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 10, 2020, 11:50:25 pm
> Nobody should cheat no matter who it is.  My side or your side.
Here is a smiley face to keep it friendly. :grin:
When I fish, I don't let a camera get in the way and it all goes in the frying pan and when there it does not matter if it was big or little only that it gets on my plate.  Just like my deer hunting, I like the food better than the trophy.


On this we agree.  :grin:
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 11, 2020, 01:53:59 am
> Nobody should cheat no matter who it is.  My side or your side.
Here is a smiley face to keep it friendly. :grin:
When I fish, I don't let a camera get in the way and it all goes in the frying pan and when there it does not matter if it was big or little only that it gets on my plate.  Just like my deer hunting, I like the food better than the trophy.


On this we agree.  :grin:


https://youtu.be/zrsJPppKZeo
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 11, 2020, 02:22:35 am
Ben
I hope you are not giving to the defense fund so that trump can take 60 percent to play with.  Giving to the poor would be more righteous way to spend your money then on a fund raising scam like this.  Going no where.  Plenty of observers around for a lady to show copied ballots to at the time she seen them.  They are good with the bull though.   
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 11, 2020, 08:10:46 am
From my understanding; The lady in the video was a poll manager.  It was her responsibility at this particular polling site for safeguarding all election materials, having a chain of custody to report too, ensuring only qualified voters are permitted to vote and each qualified voter is permitted to vote only once.  These phony ballots she is describing were found while she and others were auditing  the ballots as she stated here in the video, Which apparently was ignored not only by you as you watched the video, but by those who (counted), in the  chain of custody; As she so stated and TESTIFIED.: 
Democratic friends of yours? That is why she testified of what she witnessed and found while she and others were auditioning the ballots.  And why you see her on NewsMax.  This is only a small example of massive cheating as reported and acknowledged by officially sworn affidavits by thousands, especially in states where Texas has filled suit. 
Goodness.....
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on December 11, 2020, 08:38:51 am
Phil, when Trump was elected you had all the faith in our country, its constitution, its institutions, our rule of law and our democracy.  What changed?
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on December 11, 2020, 10:36:21 am
I'm not Phil, but I had faith before the dems declared all out war on our president and our way of life. I see them making the US go the way of Venezuela. I do not have faith in the lying hypocrites that want to bankrupt the country and pay everyone to quit working and live on assets until they all dry up.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 11, 2020, 03:43:04 pm
So far no court has looked at the evidence of fraud.  They have not ruled on it either. They have either sent it back down or sent it on up because of whatever reason they came up with which have been, so far:  It was filed too early.  It was filed too late.  It was not filed by the correct plaintiff.  It is not the jurisdiction of that court.  Etc.  The suit that is before the Supreme Court is STILL not even asking for them to rule on fraud, but rather on the Constitutionality of elections in the four states who are the defendants, method of carrying out their election.  The US constitution says in Section I Clause 2: "Clause 2. Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress; but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector."  Texas is saying that the defendants did NOT follow the manner directed by the Legislature.  They violated their own election laws and in doing so left the election vulnerable to fraud and this disenfranchised the people of the state of Texas as well as the rest of the country.  If the Supreme Court of the United States were to find the electors ineligible because of this the state legislatures would be required to choose the electors or not send any electors.  This is the law.  If not enough electors show up, I'm not sure how that will go.  To win you have to have a majority of electors, but how are the electors who are not there counted?  Are they part of the math to decide a majority or not?  It's not clear that I can see.  So if that happens again the Supreme Court may have to intervene.  If it is decided that no one has the majority it goes to the House of Representatives where each state delegation gets one vote.  They can elect any of the top three candidates that the Electoral college voted for.  Of course, if the Supreme Court doesn't rule or they rule against Texas and the other 18 states then the electors from the defendant states will remain and the Electoral College will elect the president when they vote as long as one of them gets a majority.

Keep in mind that the election for President has not taken place yet.  It is the Electoral College who elect the President.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 11, 2020, 04:30:30 pm
Michael
The reason the court has not looked at fraud is cause every time one of trumps lawyers is ask if he is claiming fraud in what is before the court, the lawyer has said no.  Is it any wonder no court has looked at it?
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 11, 2020, 06:05:15 pm
It would help to gather evidence of fraud if they would actually do an audit instead of a recount.  But it is EASY to prove that the states did not follow their own law.  The written proceedures used by the Secretaries of State and the Election boards violated the law in many cases.  So far this is the point and so far no court has decided that either.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 11, 2020, 08:45:26 pm
Well, I guess a stoke has been struck for states rights.  Texas is now done.  Maybe if trump could raise just a little more money from those he is trying to dupe they could go for 50 cases lost.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 12, 2020, 12:26:13 pm
I'm not Phil, but I had faith before the dems declared all out war on our president and our way of life. I see them making the US go the way of Venezuela. I do not have faith in the lying hypocrites that want to bankrupt the country and pay everyone to quit working and live on assets until they all dry up.

Iddee you may be right. That's how it happens. Check out this video featuring Luis Zuniga, a recipient of socialism, as he explained what America should have learned from Cuba's fall into socialism.

https://youtu.be/BRPdJa37x08
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 12, 2020, 01:24:19 pm
Ben
So worried about the buzz word socialism?  Should I counter and dig up a bunch of videos on the risk of those who would over turn the will of the voting populous like all the "buzz word" facist dictators and what damage happened to many of those country's people?  Propaganda is easy to come by.  The other thing is that most fabrications have just enough truth to make you wonder.  Personally I am about to start collecting social security and I don't mind at this point in my life if that sorta sticks around for a while now that I have made it here.  What should I fear most?  Having this socialist program or not having it?
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 12, 2020, 01:40:36 pm
Since you have surfaced here in the last few weeks while reading your post, I anticipated no less of a response from you. This man is a living witness to the dangers of socialism. Warning you, I, and all Americans of the dangers of socialism as he lived through its ugliness, (putting it lightly), there in his Cuba. Telling YOU of its uprising in his words of the downfall of his very own country. Explaining how, when, where, and what of his country before and after socialism, yet you answer with mockery. I'm not surprised. Sad
 
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 12, 2020, 02:45:40 pm
ben
It is not mockery to point out different fears that touch on what is going on in our own county and not letting that guys experience dissuade or deflect from that.  You like to mention my recent arrival here but I was here before you ever joined.  There are first hand experiences from facist successful movements also. Your cuba has a dictator.  Giving money to soy bean farmers  or oil producers is just as socialist as is welfare.  I got in one discussion here were it was socialism to unionize or build roads.  Socialism is just a buzz word and I personally like to think more along the lines that I agree with this and I don't agree with that and reasons why that is good and that is bad.  I did not watch your video cause I already know that I don't intend on moving to cuba.  You post a lot of stuff to promote your over all direction of thinking as a tool to promote the political side you are promoting or scared of.  I just point out that you may not be putting up the best defense of stopping those fears from happening here.  I would think that at the point somebody might win regardless of the vote of the people would be the point where there would be no defense from those types of things happening.  Since trump was the discussion, his trying to over throw the vote of the people, if successful, would put you and I at more risk of bad things happening then what our history is now of voting one way and then voting again the next time to make adjustment.
The only mockery I see, if we are still on the subject we were on, is the mockery you are having of our historical practice that it is the voters who decide who will lead.  Trump lost and unless credible facts changes that, it is anti American to want a different out come until the chance to vote again happens.  It is not wrong to take any position and push you elected rep to act on between now and then but is wrong to cheat.
Cheating or promoting cheating could be considered treason to the constitution.  You just keep fighting the good fight and on some of those fights, I might surprise you where I stand.  I don't stand on, what this thread had been about, that using the fear of the buzz word "socialism" as being a good excuse to cheat on what the people voted for.

I will tell you another thing about my neck of the woods and what I see.  I live in a very rural place and a republican state.  Votes here go 80 republican to 20 democrate.  Yet when minimum wage was on the ballot, it passed two to one and when right to work was on the ballot it failed two to one.  This reversed the position the elected reps were taking.  Most people vote for the best they can with out having to agree with everything that who they voted for stands for.  I retain my right to bleep by participating.  Win some and lose some and some times lose for a time and then win.  Voting is what allows this eb and flow as long as voting means something.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 12, 2020, 06:32:45 pm
I won't even try to respond to all the bunkum in that post.  Call it what you will, socialism, communism, or some other "buzz word" you may chose. You on the left, just may be on the road of being successful at forfeiting our freedoms and rights to the lefts agenda; If the on again, off again promises and suggestions made by many of the left come to pass, don't cry about it. You may very well find yourself enjoying you deer hunting with a bb gun. You are not alone, half the country is right there with you. (Oh I did not know they was going to all those things). You on the left were warned of the dangers of the speech of the left, and the direction they wish to take our country, unlike the Democrats of old. Yet a continuance following of the leftist agenda in solidarity, appearing befuddled to the point of intoxication by the hate preached night and day by your leaders, attacking the President from every angle. As Iddee said "you on the left declared war on our President."  I suppose the conversation at this point may be mute.
A heads up in case you have not heard by way of your propaganda news stations.
Youtube has boldly announced they will take down all videos which may inquire or point out fraud of this election from News Networks which post on their platform. History teaches us Freedom of speech and freedom and expression, along with freedom of the press are always first to go in a free country that has went to, or sliding into a socialist, or as you say a "buzz word" leaning agenda, seeking a radical change toward a "buzz word" form of Government. Once these freedoms are lost, the rest is easy. Apparently they are wasting no time just go back to reply 44.




                                                                                                                                                                                .
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 12, 2020, 09:09:40 pm
ben
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

I can find as many reasons to dislike both sides.  As stated earlier, I don't like the complete platform or action of any party.  But big picture, if I were to worry, I could worry about warrantless searches or imminent domain or the drug war.  I remember when bush senior was the one to sign and anti gun law.  I remember the assault ban.  Though it all, I have used my remington 742 simi-auto.  Through it all abortion is still legal. 
The reason the news is all saying the same thing is cause it is probably all owned by just a few people.  Long gone are the days where teddy Roosevelts anti trust laws have any meaning.  There are quite a few problems that neither side does very well on.  This benefits me as far a guns go though I no longer buy new ones due to the hassle that was not fixed by the republican either.  Can things get worse, yep.  Do the people recoil and use thier  vote to try for adjustment, yep.  Does it work, sometimes but not often.  If the vote is cheated on, is there even any hope on either side for adjustment, Nope.
 
I don't know how I feel about You tubes position.  Personally, I am not scared to see all the bull that can be posted.  I could see how carrying on about something like the berther thing that was bunk and carried on against obama could be wrong to let go on like it was and all the fakers that pretend to be talking fact while using lies but then would worry about the people doing the picking of having an agenda.  I am comfortable in my bull crap meter and don't mind wading through it but can see how susceptible some are also.
You tube is going to do what it does and I will chose whether to keep using it or not.  I never did get on face book yet and so know I can live with out it if I need to though I do find it useful for fixing my car at times.

I put your byline up top cause you think I type bunkum and I thought you needed a talking to.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 12, 2020, 11:06:24 pm
You and I may not be so far apart. There are things I do not like about either side either. I do not like the idea of a vaccine that breaks new ground with a short time of testing, Trump is pushing this hard. I do not like it gww. For several elections, I was disappointed in choices of either party.  In 2000 when going to the voting booth with the choice of either Bush Jr. or Al Gore Jr, even though Al Sr was an acquaintance of my grandaddy back in the day, I felt belittled by either of these, in my opinion poor choices. Again in 2004 with either GW Bush or John Kerry, Barf....  2008 it was McCain or Obama again, "is this the best each has to offer? Pitiful....  2012  Obama vs Romney, "goodness the bottom of the barrel for either side" was my opinion. Finally 2016 Clinton vs Trump. Though not a politician, Trump was an independent thinker. But with him, is that good or bad was my thoughts. What kind of crazy off the wall thing might he do, was also my thoughts.  Honestly gww, I did not like him or his arragiont ways. After a short time watching one of his shows, I refused to watch any more of his show (the apprentice) and thought, "if he talked to me the way he does his workers I would bust him with a hard right". Thats putting it nicely.lol  In those days of the apprentice, even the left loved him, I did not like him at all. In this same 2016 I actually liked the Constitutionalist Ted Cruz though in my opinion he did not qualify as he was born in Canada. A stipulation that I saw as disqualifying as I understood the meaning of The Constitution. So who was left? Donald Trump or Hillary. I was apprehensive. I listened to the blow hards words closely. As well as those of Hillary. Answer, a no brainer. If the outsider would keep his word, uphold the Constitution, he may be the guy after all. After all, he knew how to get things done as I found by researching his accomplishments as well as the reasons he gave for running. Is he for real, or a builder? a con man?  A casino man? A showman... I was thinking, we will see. What I saw in Hillary was even worse. Larry Nichols said the first time he met her she had a medallion on her neck which read proud member of the "(American Buzz word party)". True or false I do not know.
To my pleasant surprise, Mr Trump has pretty much kept his promises even with all the negativity of the left and right, in spite of all the attacks, all the hate they could throw his way relentlessly. Some of his own people of his party included, both sides which should have been in Washington representing you and I instead, looking out for our interest. We the People on both sides. Foreign relations? Actually he just closed a huge peace deal just a few days ago. Have you heard this on the news? Doesn't this make the 4th one?

Absolutely no cheating, with you I agree gww. With the evidence which has been uncovered by the small team of investigators, along with over two thousand SWORN affidavits of voter fraud, adding video tapes of pulling hidden false ballots while excluding good ballots already out, ready to be counted, recorded on video, as reported by OAN and
re-innervated by Mr Trump at a rally in Georgia shown on the big screen for all to see just a week or so ago!  PLUS the revelation of voting machines and their nefarious capabilities. I am very unhappy as are half the nation's citizens and I really believe most of the other half would be unhappy as well if the evidence was to come to light and clearly shown. As I said before, If Biden had won fair and square then so be it. But if by cheating, cheating us, you and me to win, via means of his subbornants and Trump's enemies and maybe even others from other avenues is beyond reproach. Just as if Trump was trying to cheat himself back in would be beyond reproach as well. Trump still may have avenues afforded by the constitution but is looks dim to me at this time.  As you said cheating an election, and again, I agree with you, is treason. The problem or division that you and I have, is WHO is cheating. I do not like cheating even in a high school ball game by a bios referee no matter which side I am rooting for. As you and I know an election is not game. I certainly can not abide the cheating of our country by selfish power hungries no matter their politics. I have spent many hours reading studying, watching news clips of right and left, private and public avenues and on and on it goes seeking the truth of this matter. Doesn't look good gww. May God have mercy of us as a country and us in our country.

Blessings
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 13, 2020, 12:22:10 am
ben
I would be upset about cheating.  What I am seeing from my side, though, is just normal stuff that happens every single election due to the amount of people it takes to run and election.  I have not bought into the theory That tons of people were involved in several states for biden.  Something like that could not be hid so well due to human nature being what it is.  There would always be somebody who folded and could give enough info to prove it.  I think it was a fair election with normal election hiccups.   I think it is absolutely treasonous for trump to say cheating did happen with no convincing truth.  I would for give this if he was saying I believe there is fraud and am looking to find proof of that but that is not what he is saying.  He told us what he was going to do before the election even happened.  Things like trump university and his charity make me believe the worst of his intentions.

I also could not stand him back in the 90s.  I am not the come out on top no matter who you hurt type of guy.  The parties will always pick the fringe candidate cause you got to get nominated for the chance to run.

My political view used to be keep it evenly divided so nobody could do anything.  What I found in real life is that when divided, the one or two things I actually like of each side was not what got done but the worst things still seemed to.  My brother says I am a libertarian but I believe I have too many social views to make this true and am probably a democrat that thinks some platform views are just bad.   I do not go out of my way to follow rules/laws or break rules/laws but trust my own moral conscience and try to do no harm to others.

Due to the money involved, I think most that make it to president are probably already flawed or they would not get said money to give them a chance.   These are my choices for my one vote and I will be honest, better them than me cause I would not take the job.  I always said that I would rather be rich than famous and would not want to be rich if I had to be famous also which is where I am in life.

I am disappointed lots of times with outcomes but mostly get by just fine cause I do what I want anyway.

I move to a county with the least restrictions and concentrate on making enough money to stay there and to pay a lawyer if anyone ever does care what I do (hasn't happened yet) and don't worry that much.   I like the social programs cause my grandpa died while grandma still had seven young kids at home and she would not have survived with out those programs at that time and did not survive well with them.

My father did better that his parents and I did almost as good as my dad but I don't really trust that for my grand kids right now.  I loved the 70s where I lived cause nobody spent all their time worrying about the other guy but at the time I returned from the army in 83, things had changes where I live quite a bit already by then.

I pay more attention now then I used to and I have always voted but I don't care enough to do much more then call balls and fouls as I see them.  That is why I don't spend as much time on here as I used to cause I only have these energetic burst here and there and the need for bee help is not nearly as strong as it was a few years ago.  I enjoy this once in a while but only when bored of my normal routine.  You need not worry too much about my needling of you cause I tire fast and will fade back into the background pretty soon.  I guess I should thank you for keeping me energized for a bit.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 13, 2020, 08:27:00 am
Yes it seems we differ on WHO is cheating. As I stated earlier I did not like Mr Trump the showman. I do like Mr Trump the  President. I believe he was intent on making good his promise, I will make you the best President. You will be so proud. He EARNED my respect as Commander In Chief when the Las Vegas massacre occurred. Within two weeks he was on his way to Saudi Arabia. When he left Saudi Arabia, Several of those Royal Prince were arrested and over 800 billion dollars of their assets were seized. That was the beginning of the end of Isis. But at the same time is when I noticed censorship  beginning of private platforms such as YouTube. Our president did not come straight home if you will recall, he made a world tour and laid out the way Molly hid the peaches. He in no uncertain terms made clear to the world that he was representing America and America first and foremost. He has done an excellent job as president. He has earned my respect daily from that point forward. Yes, there are things I do not understand referring to mistakes he has made. The lack of Draining the swamp is the first mistake in my opinion instead of putting people like Rex Tillerson in his inner circle. Along with this vaccine push which in my opinion may be a massive mistake. These are my opinions. Has he saved the best for last? Perhaps everything is lined up where he can finally drain the swamp to the bottom? I realize that is really reaching but there are things that you and I do not know that he And his few loyal patriots do know. This is bigger than you or I and I will confess I do not know. We shall see.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on December 13, 2020, 09:56:06 am
Things like trump university and his charity make me believe the worst of his intentions.
It certainly isn't his worst but it definitely defines his character.
It saddens me to realize that so many Americans tapped into his selfish nature.  Equally astonishing that most of them are older.  The parents of the "Me" generation.  I guess I know now where these kids learned it from.  They call themselves Christians but totally forgot or fail to practice that it is better to give then receive.
Under the Trump administration the swamp has grown by leaps and bounds to the point where there is no fixing it.  All the shenanigans that he has pulled will be duplicated from here on in no matter what party is in power.  I think of the irony that the judges that Trump installed may turn out to be the resounding key that saved this country from the Trump swamp.  Time will tell if future rulings will favor the rights of the people or the hypocritical Christians.
I may be lucky enough to witness 5 more election cycles.  Luck might be a bad choice of words.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 13, 2020, 10:37:11 am
I suppose you might be referring to Nick Sandmann one of the Christian kids off on a once in a lifetime exciting and adventurous tour of Washington DC a trip which was intended on building wonderful memories with he and his and fellow classmates that would last a lifetime but instead was singled out by a leftist hero because he was wearing a make America Great again hat. Which was PROVEN to have been singled out by your lying leftest.  And scorned by your leftest media. How did that work out Ace?

Or could you instead be totally confusing Christian kids with socialists kids, talking of the youth who has been burning cities, tearing down statues, screaming to the top of their voices, regaining terror in their paths, destroy property both public and private, cussing using the most filthy language imaginable, beating innocent bystanders, usually the old and helpless. Even MURDER. You have it backward once again. I agree some parents went wrong in this country, by teaching their kids to grow up to be Liars and false accusers. Know anyone like that Ace?
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 13, 2020, 12:11:38 pm
Yes ben
We have a very different view.  I looked at his giving names for mbc to get rich off of and then covering mbc.s but when he killed a journalist that was living in america.   I remember the arms sell starting out at creating 40,000 jobs but at the end claiming it would create millions of jobs.  How could anyone trust somebody using so much hyperbole in real time.   I still can't wait to see his taxes and see if there is any connection.  I did not like many of his promises or the people around him.  Never seen so many scandals from so many people he appointed grafting.
I did not like his promises to begin with.   Building the wall seemed like pure waste for a guy living in Mo and the scamming around it by those close to trump just adds to that.  To me, 90 percent of his motive for doing things seemed to be based on hate for obama and not motivated based on right for the people.  I did not hate every thing he did but do not even trust him there.  I see a place for tariffs but then see his daughter getting a bunch of patents from china and know I may not really know what is going on.  There was one other pet peeve I had that most politicians fall short on and that is the hypocrisy the have.  Small thing but like going after Hillary for personal cell phone use and then his daughter using her personal phone and playing dumb about it.

So politically, we have very different views.  However, I lived with it when trump got the most votes till my nest chance to vote.  Now the vote is in and the populace has spoken and trump needs to go till next vote.

Trump really says nothing most of the time because of the way he communicates.  He says no, and if yes, it would still be ok.  To me, he puts off that his followers are to dumb to know what he is saying and he may be right cause most seem to like him regardless.

The texas supreme court case show the scam of believing in constitution on states rights and the
emoluments clause must not be the important part of the constitution.

So the picking and choosing going on on which parts of the constitution are important leads me to believe that maybe the election portion may have no meaning either. 

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 13, 2020, 12:29:34 pm
Edited:
I know his daughter is the light of his eye. She may be a great business woman. His son-in-law he speaks highly of as well. Of the patents, has she broke the law? The good news is as our President, has pretty much done a great job overall. He has kept America first. Of course we can rehash all the things he promised and accomplished. If you have watched one of his rallies he was sure to tell you.

As far as the suit filed by Texas see the following

The Constitution
Article I, Section 4, Clause 1:  says.

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

The problem that Texas and other states had from what I understand, the states in question did not follow the law via the guidelines of the constitution. (keep in mind I am no expert here, there may be others here who understand this more clearly than do I). They did not go through their state Legislature but instead skipped the legislature changing the rules via counting votes received after the closing of the polls and was instructed by their own rules. The last minute changes were done so by the AG of those states defying their own state laws which should have been done by their state Legislature Is my understanding. Perhaps Lawyer Rick may know more about this?

I suppose on some things we agree on and some things we disagree. I suppose on the ones we disagree, we should simply agree to disagree.   
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on December 13, 2020, 08:38:49 pm
Hey, gww, were you against the wall when the dems started it? After all, Trump came in well after the wall was started. You, like Pelouisy Shumer, and Pencil neck , probably were 100% for it until Trump picked it up and went on with it. Hypocrisy at it's best. The rest of your post is the same. I thought while reading the first half of it, you were talking about O'bummer.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 14, 2020, 03:00:37 am
Iddee
I always though walls were bad since we told russia to take theirs down.  Half of the problem with walls is they are like roads, always going bad and needing rebuilt.  I could think of better things to spend on even if it was just a good wage for more border control people or judges to move the process along a little faster.  If it makes any difference to you, I would not live in a gated community either.  Always too many rules in places like that.  The only walls I like are the trees that separate me from my neighbor.   It seems that even obama got a lot of money for trump to spend on walls just to repair the ones that were already there.  They are scared to give a restaurant owner any money but will spend 11 billion per mile of wall?  Just don't make much sense to me.
It is a good job if you are the one who gets the contract.  Spread that money a little thinner and give more people a decent wage doing real jobs.
Cheers
gww

Ps you are about like trump in claiming things that you have no proof of.  what would give you the ideal I ever though walls were good.  Not much choice when both side say yes is there.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on December 14, 2020, 04:56:17 am
I have to agree with you there, but that isn't the way big gov. works. The wall was going up, whoever was in. I'm just saying the idea shouldn't reverse just because the other party got in.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 14, 2020, 11:15:55 am
Iddee, gww
Speaking  of walls, Germany and our border to the south. It would seem unfair to compare the two would it not? The German wall as I understand it was placed separating a city Berlin, and country Germany. We might say the same concerning Korea? The Demarcation Line. Isn't this line, like Germany's wall? Placed there as a result of war? Placed there to totally disallow any tolerance of any citizen from Crossing in either direction?  Separating the same Nationality-of  people, Koreans and Germans at the war torn borders.  Under no circumstances either were allowed to cross this line, dividing their nations.  Unlike the BORDER wall of America and Mexico. This wall is not to divide a nation but reinforce the border of our two sovereign nations. Allowing visitors from each country to cross, visit, conduct business, see friends and neighbors, even go fishing lol etc? Simply a means to make certain folks enter and exit legally from one country to the next. For many years this was not seen necessary until American was clearly being taken advantage of by our kindness of open borders if you will.  Looking at it in this point of view, comparing our border wall to Germany or Korea is unfair in my opinion.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 14, 2020, 11:53:01 am
ben
That is a two way street.  Do you remember before terrorisms became such a big thing.  An American could be in Michigan and hop in is car and go to Canada with out a birth certificate or pass port. Didn't have to use you birth certificate so you could get a drivers license just so you could fly from Mo to Chicago.  Just like the drug war and having to sign for a couple sudafed, we are willing to add restrictions to ourselves due to our great fear of the other.  All the government powers since home land security?  All good?  Perhaps, or perhaps not.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 14, 2020, 12:12:08 pm
I do remember gww. The terrorism mess sure opened a can of worms didnt it.  Thankfully Mr Trump put a stop to that. I am not happy with many things that spun off in the disguise of anti-terrorism. We were warned of loss of liberty by those who had the insight, (which were few at that time). One who comes to mind was Congressman Ron Paul. Such great patriots were deemed by the left and right as quacks if you recall? "All the government powers since home land security?  All good?  Perhaps, or perhaps not."   I say not gww. We have compromised liberty for safety. Who was it that said warning us, those who would compromise or forfeit liberty for safety deserve neither?
Was it Benjamin Franklin? I need to look that up because I agree.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 14, 2020, 12:22:52 pm
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither" Yes is was old wise Ben. I also noticed that many quotes are now disputed by many on google, saying he really meant this or he really meant that. Though these things were written down in the day and recorded at meetings by the person in charge of recording minutes in those days keeping accurate records. gww they are teaching these anti-founder views in our schools and colleges. Brainwashing our kids! No wonder our youth are so confused, turning to anarchy in the streets, filled with hate!
Sad isn't it.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Michael Bush on December 14, 2020, 12:23:26 pm
I have still yet to see anyone do an actual audit of their elections.  They have shredded ballots, they have wiped voting machines and servers.  They have threatened whisleblowers.  Of course during the election they threw out the witnesses and  the challengers.  People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

What I saw in the hundreds of hours of testimony I have watched--testimony from eye witnesses who swore under oath affidavits--was that Trump won in most of those states.  You could see it in the numbers being reported.  Then all they ran out of ballots and were done for the night at least.  Then all of a sudden a truckload of more ballots come in that are all for Biden and none of those people are in the registration system so they add them.  Of the witnesses who saw any of this, they wrote down what names and addresses they could before they were thrown out and those addresses don't exist.  It looks like after they were done they had not cheated enough, so they had to come up with a bunch more ballots to finish the job.  It's easy enough to get to the bottom of it if someone would do a complete audit of all of the ballots and the voter registration rolls.  Do the addresses exist?  Do the people live in the state?  Are they of age? etc.  This is all doable.  You can look an address up on the USPS database yourself to see if it's valid.  It could mostly be automated, though I tend to trust it more if it's done one at a time so people can see what's happening.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 14, 2020, 12:42:25 pm
Mr Bush what you say is true. But just like the above post that gww and I are discussing. The left are not only misleading our youth but through the media are attempting the same to our adults through their news medias. How many left media leaning networks are reporting what you just wrote? How many are discussing the testimony of these witnesses etc? Instead they report this election is no different than any other and the few irregularities are always to be expected etc.  SAD:  If folks hear only this, what else will they believe? When the truth is suppressed and countered as untruth, why would we not have such confusion? If I did not diligently seek the truth I would not find it. If I watched cnn and the like only, I would be mad too! Thinking these on the right are wrong, they are trying to steal our election! That is why I have patience with our left leaning friends here. These propagandist have their agendas and presentation of this propaganda down to an art.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: gww on December 14, 2020, 02:38:11 pm
Ben
And here I was thinking I was the one with patience. :cool:
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 14, 2020, 02:58:57 pm
Ben
And here I was thinking I was the one with patience. :cool:
Cheers
gww

👍🏻 lol    :cool:
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on December 14, 2020, 05:04:20 pm
Of the patents, has she broke the law?
Yes, she like her father has not divorced herself from foreign business dealings which is a requirement for high positions in government.  They are both criminals.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Ben Framed on December 14, 2020, 06:12:49 pm
Of the patents, has she broke the law?
Yes, she like her father has not divorced herself from foreign business dealings which is a requirement for high positions in government.  They are both criminals.

That is interesting Ace.  What sources are you getting your information from, what law has she broken? What law has President broken in relation? Sources Please.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: iddee on December 14, 2020, 06:51:56 pm
But influence peddling by the vice president is legal and admired?? Right, Ace. Keep going.
Title: Re: Overview - here we debate or dicuss the laws of our Repupublic.
Post by: Acebird on December 15, 2020, 08:14:07 am
President Trump said he would honor the vote of the electoral college.  OOPs lied again.  Barr resigns ... another crushing blow.  Trouble is he stained his reputation and will go down in history as just another one of Trump's suckers and losers.  On another note there are thousands of high school kids becoming 18 before the Jan 5th election in GA.  So more are being registered to vote in that election.  I'll bet Mitch's butt hole is twitching...
Yes, lets discuss the laws of our Republic. :smile: