One Piece Plastic Frames

[Ben Framed]

Are there any of you in SHB areas that use the one piece plastic frames? What have you experienced with this product as in relation to SHB? Have you had problems with the SHB hiding in the slots along the frames? If I lived up North I would not hesitate on the one piece as opposed to the option of wood frame and plastic insert. Oldbeavo, have you tried the one piece frames in you area? Others?

[yes2matt]

I work with a farm who has a bunch of these in stock so I reluctantly use them. I have not had the trouble I expected with SHB in the cracks. The trouble I have is something about the formulation of the plastic the bees just keep drawing and don't stop, they build in top and below the frames and cross comb like crazy. I have a mess to clean up every inspection and open honey every time I separate boxes, so that next month it's going to be a robber issue.

I do not recommend them. Tho not because the bees don't draw on plastic, but because they don't stop drawing.

Edit to add; the combs drawn down off the wood were actually drawn up from the plastic frames in the box below. An unhappy mess.

[Mamm7215]

Is that what the spacing was like originally?  I have plastic frames and have never seen that but the spacing of the frames in that picture looks like there's too much room from the bottom of these frames to the top of the frames in the box below.  I've had a hive not draw on a wood frame with wax foundation and all other frames are drawn and then put a plastic frame in and they go to town on it.  Some they just don't like.

[yes2matt]

Is that what the spacing was like originally?  I have plastic frames and have never seen that but the spacing of the frames in that picture looks like there's too much room from the bottom of these frames to the top of the frames in the box below.  I've had a hive not draw on a wood frame with wax foundation and all other frames are drawn and then put a plastic frame in and they go to town on it.  Some they just don't like.

Good point ya know it's a mix of equipment from multiple suppliers in multiple decades and I haven't gone thru to measure. I'd rather use wood anyway. :)  so maybe the complaint I have is more about standard size than the plastic.

I prefer no foundation in the brood box but we do have some frames with wood support and plastic foundation and I have no complaints about those.

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[Robo]

If I lived up North I would not hesitate on the one piece as opposed to the option of wood frame and plastic insert.

There is a huge difference between fully drawn plastic frames (HSC) and undrawn plastic frames (Pierco).   I would not recommend the later to even my enemies.   The undrawn frames are so flimsy that when they are fully drawn and full of brood and/or honey they flex so they are difficult to deal with.  Forget about trying to use frame grips with them as your frames will end up on the ground.  Fully drawn plastic frames and wood frames with plastic inserts do not experience this issue.

[Ben Framed]

If I lived up North I would not hesitate on the one piece as opposed to the option of wood frame and plastic insert.

There is a huge difference between fully drawn plastic frames (HSC) and undrawn plastic frames (Pierco).   I would not recommend the later to even my enemies.   The undrawn frames are so flimsy that when they are fully drawn and full of brood and/or honey they flex so they are difficult to deal with.  Forget about trying to use frame grips with them as your frames will end up on the ground.  Fully drawn plastic frames and wood frames with plastic inserts do not experience this issue.

RoBo thanks for the Pierco advice. How about acorn, have you tried their one piece frames?  If so, what were the results?

[Robo]

RoBo thanks for the Pierco advice. How about acorn, have you tried their one piece frames?  If so, what were the results?

I have not, but would put all undrawn plastic frames in the same category.  The basic design of a frame does not allow for rigidity when made out of thin plastic.

[TheHoneyPump]

I have no SHB here, nor any experience with them.
However, I do feel compelled to set aside negative comments that put all plastic frames into the same category.  Am certainly not discounting the experiences expressed. I wish to say that:
- You cannot blame wild combs due to bee space violations on the frames.
- Not all frame products are equal. There are high quality ones and there are absolute trash ones. Know what you have and speak to only what you have. Do not lump together.

[Robo]

- Not all frame products are equal. There are high quality ones and there are absolute trash ones. Know what you have and speak to only what you have. Do not lump together.

One can argue the amount of wax applied and the acceptance rate,  but in the case of Pierco vs Acorn I'll will stand by my previous statement on rigidity.  Nick left Pierco and started his own company Acorn.  The design of the frame rails are almost identical between the two brands and both will have very similar flexing issues.   

[Ben Framed]

Thank you all for your comments. I have been given advice by a friend to invest in acorn and only acorn. This friend has never given me bad advise. Really the brand of one piece frames was not my reasoning for this topic though your experiences are welcome and how we all learn. Maybe even detouring someone from making the mistake of buying a flimsy inferior brand. Especially if we realize there may be a brand that is stronger or better for instance.  We also learn, if we check our bee space closely we may be able to avoid problems. We all win when we comment and ask questions in my opinion. . . My real question is about SHB and space molded between the frames. My friend who recommended acorn does not live in SHB territory. If he had of been living in SHB territory, therefore I did not bring up SHB when I ask his preference of plastic. I still welcome all thoughts even though Mr HP has made good points as well as others in their circumstances. Again that is how we learn. I still would like to hear more comments about the one piece frames relating to molded spaces, and SHB. Thanks fellow beekeepers.

[Ben Framed]

RoBo posted just Pryor to my post. You fellows disagree your opinions are welcome. Please consider the initial question as well. I remember watching a cartoon where the Hatfields and McCoys were feuding. Boom boom boom as it went over a disagreement.  A mule riding preacher would visit both sides and reason (Gentlemen let there be peace.) finally both sides got tired of hearing it and as he was riding from one side to the other side both sides opened up on him when he reached the middle. lol   Gentlemen, I am hoping to keep peace but please don?t open up on me lol

[van from Arkansas]

Mr. Ben, hello fella.  I have acquired some plastic frames when I purchased some nucs, supposedly survival stock.  I always look for beetles in the groves at the edges of the plastic frame and yes, the small hive beetle will hide in the spaces.  As you probably are aware the grove is perfect size for protecting beetles and providing a safe spot for the ding dang beetles.

The few plastic frames that I have are brood frames so I have no experience with extraction of honey in plastic frame.  I use the green plastic frames for drone brood production and this works well for me.  I always have to check for beetles though but realize I am talking about one green frame in a breeder quality hive with 19 other wood frames.  I could easily envision a nightmare with beetles if all frames were plastic because as you know, I spray each and every beetle I find in a hive.

Sometimes the bees will propolis some of the beetle safe spaces in plastic frame denying use by beetles.

I can?t answered you with a thumbs up or down: no honey extraction experience, just brood.  And yes sir, the beetles make use of the safe area on the edges, but works great for a single drone frame in my apiary.  My bees draw out the green frame without issue.

Best of Health to your bees, everyone.

[van from Arkansas]

If you look at the top far right corner, the bees propolized the safe haven spot, gap, for beetles.  A fella could wax fill those gaps, just like the bees filled or sealed with propolis.

What would be cool: if the Mfg or beek, filled the gaps with sticky.  A beetle trap would be created, as the gaps are to small for bees to enter and just perfect size for a beetle.

[amymcg]

My bees always propolize the gaps within one season. I have a bunch of older Mann lake 4.9 plastic frames. I threw a bunch out because they had warped. The warping usually only seems to happen on undrawn frames
Exposed to extreme weather. (In a box I am outdoor shed)


I have one plastic frame marked Acorn and I don?t know where it came from. Maybe from a previous nuc.


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[.30WCF]

I didn?t read thoroughly through every comment here, but as mentioned, the vertical spacing is off, but there is almost a full frames width in between frames. May have already been mentioned, but I just skimmed.


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[Ben Framed]

Thanks Amy, Warping does not sound fun or good. Maybe the brand? I looked at one of the brands that was mentioned above and the company said
"One Piece Plastic Beehive Frames have a newly redesigned and much stronger ear configuration. Highest quality manufacturing guarantees sturdier, flatter and stiffer frames."

The hiding places are a great concern for me Mr Van. Thank you for your (hands on) SHB experienced reply. SHB are dreaded by me. The oil pans, and ideas that we are trying are all a good honest efforts to detour them from getting into our hives but the last thing I need to do is supply a hiding place within the hive when they do get in. Amy tells us that after the first year the spots are filled. That's good.
Your idea of turning those hiding places into a trap sounds grand! Well worth investigating the possibilities. 




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[Oldbeavo]

We have 200 full plastic frames in the system some where, most are now in the brood boxes.
Reason, the bees do add more wax to them, if we are trying to split supers and are having trouble getting them to part there will be a full plastic stuck to the bottom bar of the super you want to lift. Don't worry about the spacing comments as the wooden frames don't stick.
They also are slippery and go a bit wonky in the uncapper until they wax up sufficiently.
They are very strong as in about 8 years I have only broke the lugs off 2 and there is no warping at all.
Bees eventually wax up the gaps but I am like HP and not in a critical SHB area.

[Michael Bush]

I have thousands of PF120 frames.  They are no better or worse as far as small hive beetles.