Why are the bees eating up the brood if they have pollen?!?

[FloridaGardener]

Guesses?

Colony 1
2 month old queen, doing well. Awesome temperament.
Inside-the-rim quart-jar feeder 1:1
August, rainy
7 frames of bees including adequate pollen
No beesrobbing
Inside-the-rim quart-jar feeder
I add a frame of  mostly capped brood with only nurses (I allowed flyoff time for any working bees to leave)
Suddenly Q's dead and they're making queen cells
Have eaten 5 frames of brood and only capped brood remains.

Colony 2
7 frames of Brood pulled from hot hive
Day 5, QC removed. All brood was eaten. 
5 frames of bees including small amt of pollen
Lots of honey & a little open nectar
August, rainy
No beesrobbing

Colony 3
20 frames bees
Empty brood nest with polished cells
Lots of stores
No eggs, no brood
Q visible
         ... on this one I guess Q ran out of eggs...

[salvo]

Hi FG,

A few years ago I had hives located in another town. I'd see the hives on Mondays and Thursdays after work. I'd see brood and eggs on one day, and none in the same place the next. Noticed good laying patterns,... then nothing.

I lingered for a while at the hive and saw the reason.

A small number of yellow jackets were "farming" my hive! They did not kill the queen nor apparently fight and kill many workers that I noticed. Only a few yj would casually zip in, do their dirty-work, and fly out.

I took those hives to my home. Problem solved.

That was my problem. Yours might not be the same.

Sal

[BeeMaster2]

It can also bee Bull Ants. Look at your hives at night.
Jim Altmiller

[FloridaGardener]

I'd suspect some kind of predator but
(1) we have no yellow jackets here in NW Florida.  At least, I've never seen one in 13 yrs mo has any other gardening friend.  I have seen european hornets but usually the bees cook them.   Maybe the nuc was too weak and...but one has a plastic robbing screen and I doubt the hornet can fit inside the gate. 

(2) These two colonies are a mile apart.

(3) My friend 3 miles away said in July there was a TOTAL brood break for over 20 days.  Meaning, no brood in ANY stage on inspection.  Gave it time... now there's 4 full frames capped/emerging.  Says the bees do that when they get mites, so the bees stop making a hatching place/breeding ground for mites.  Also is a no-treatment beek like me. 

No observable mites in my hives or in the west beetle traps...I will wait then and see what happens.




 

[The15thMember]

(3) My friend 3 miles away said in July there was a TOTAL brood break for over 20 days.  Meaning, no brood in ANY stage on inspection.  Gave it time... now there's 4 full frames capped/emerging. Says the bees do that when they get mites, so the bees stop making a hatching place/breeding ground for mites. Also is a no-treatment beek like me. 

No observable mites in my hives or in the west beetle traps...I will wait then and see what happens. 

If that's the case, that's phenomenal! 

[TheHoneyPump]

IMHO, extremely unlikely.  More likely is:  1) heavy flows in July usually plug the brood nest minimizing place for queen to lay.  2) July is prime-time when many hives swarm and self requeen right under the beekeepers nose without notice. 18-24 days of no brood coincides near perfectly with a mini swarm and main hive self requeening.  Aint drinking that Kool-aid, no way, no how, not now, not ever  ..

[beesnweeds]

IMHO, extremely unlikely.  More likely is:  1) heavy flows in July usually plug the brood nest minimizing place for queen to lay.  2) July is prime-time when many hives swarm and self requeen right under the beekeepers nose without notice. 18-24 days of no brood coincides near perfectly with a mini swarm and main hive self requeening.  Aint drinking that Kool-aid, no way, no how, not now, not ever  ..

^^ What HP said!! ^^

[FloridaGardener]

@HP - The cells are polished & waiting.  If the Q is laying, they're eating the eggs.  The nest isn't clogged.  It's hollow.

I believe you...when you say where YOU are, there IS varroa in every hive. 

I believe until recently, there was NO or minimal varroa in Australia.

I also know I have extracted colonies in my county and there was NO varroa in the slop. --"Slop" being collapsed/unsalvageable brood comb. 
I did ONE removal with varroa.  I know what it looks like. 

I've done sugar shakes with my bees and come up with 1 mite.  Or no mites!  It's not beyond the realm of possiblity.  Fly on down to the Emerald Coast and bring your alcohol wash.    We will wash bees and then you can take your kids surfing.  Remember to bring a hat to eat. 

[Ben Framed]

FloridaGardener
<< in Reply 3 on: August 27, 2022, 04:06:27 pm >>

(3) My friend 3 miles away said in July there was a TOTAL brood break for over 20 days.  Meaning, no brood in ANY stage on inspection.  Gave it time... now there's 4 full frames capped/emerging.  Says the bees do that when they get mites, so the bees stop making a hatching place/breeding ground for mites.  Also is a no-treatment beek like me.

My bees come to an almost complete stop in brood most summers, when things 'dry up' 'after' 'the flow' for lack of resources.

FloridaGardener
<< in Reply #7 on: August 27, 2022, 11:37:00 pm >>

I also know I have extracted colonies in my county and there was NO varroa in the slop. --"Slop" being collapsed/unsalvageable brood comb. 
I did ONE removal with varroa.  I know what it looks like. 

I've done sugar shakes with my bees and come up with 1 mite.  Or no mites!  It's not beyond the realm of possiblity.  Fly on down to the Emerald Coast and bring your alcohol wash.    We will wash bees and then you can take your kids surfing.  Remember to bring a hat to eat. 

FloridaGardener, I am curious; Do you have an explanation, or do you have a theory, as to how or why their would be Varroa Destructor at your friends home 'only' 3 miles away from you, and no, or only 1 mite at your place? I assume what you describe is a consistency in your experience of little or on 'no' varroa over a period of time? If so how long have you experienced this as you describe?

I noticed you mentioned your use of sugar shake. Yet you also invited another member 'here' to come and do alcohol washes, Do you sometimes use alcohol washes yourself?

Phillip 

[Acebird]

Aint drinking that Kool-aid, no way, no how, not now, not ever  ..

What does this mean?

[FloridaGardener]

Why is there little or no varroa? Who knows. 
Maybe lots of feral mite-biting bees. 
Maybe because nearby, the Air force tested Agent Orange, Blue, White, Red, etc at a density thousands of times that of the denisty it was used in Viet Nam. 
Maybe it's all the Corexit they sprayed after BP's spill. 
Maybe the quantity off varroa never reached critical mass or a tipping point.
Whatever the reason...yes I stopped powdered-sugar rolls for the bees because I'd only get 0  and rarely 1.  It isn't worth the time to do. 
A couple of times a year I see a varroa on a plant.  More often outside the hive than inside. I kill it.
A couple of years a few have shown up in May. Maybe they move around a bit. 
In this county and the next east, I know beeks who never treat for varroa because they don't want to spend the money, there are very few if ever seen, and their bees keep on multiplying.
Whatever the reason, I have a bigger war with SHB and wax moths that with varroa.

    BTW this thread was meant to get ideas on the empty brood nest and it became a treatment-no treatment debate.  Any ideas besides intentional brood break are still welcome.

[Ben Framed]

BTW this thread was meant to get ideas on the empty brood nest and it became a treatment-no treatment debate.  Any ideas besides intentional brood break are still welcome.

Looking back on the post here, I see 'no debate' of treatment-no treatment for mites on this topic.
Actually no one mentioned mites until you brought up mites in your pervious 'three' post before I ask my questions concerning your descriptions of your mite experiences.  I hope you find the answers you are looking for concerning your empty brood. You may reconsider the replies taken from the experiences of TheHoneyPump and beesnweeds, along with others which have responded with  good advise and theories concerning your original questions. (IMHO)
Or perhaps someone else might have more to add. Wishing you the best!

Phillip

[William Bagwell]

Aint drinking that Kool-aid, no way, no how, not now, not ever  ..

What does this mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones#Mass_murder-suicide_in_Jonestown

[Acebird]

Yes, I was trying to understand how the Jim Jones massacre relates to what he said.

[The15thMember]

FG, what are your flows like at this time of year?  I noticed you had a feeder on the one hive, so I'm wondering if you are in the dearth.  I also noticed that you said it was rainy.  Could not being able to forage be a contributing factor?  Just kind of trying to brainstorm here. 

[TheHoneyPump]

Aint drinking that Kool-aid, no way, no how, not now, not ever  ..

What does this mean?

It refers to 3) in OP.  It means I do not believe the 3 mile away friend saying bees stop laying when they have mites.  It may appear so because high mites load conditions kill most of the brood.
And suggesting that there are other much more plausible reasons for the observed brood break.

[Bill Murray]

Thanks HP for the comment. In my world I find it hard to get people to believe this.

[beesnweeds]

(3) My friend 3 miles away said in July there was a TOTAL brood break for over 20 days. 

My guess is he probably doesnt mark his queens.