How to react to fist size swarm

[ChrisT]

I have 2 hives. Last night at 8pm (very late of course in a bee day) i saw a fist size swarm forming on the fence next to my hives.
I didnt try to save them because it was so small and i didnt have a ready box. I also didnt check to see if a queen was in the swarm becuase the fence has a rose bush on it. ouch.

I went in to my 2 hives today and one hive had eggs, lots of bees and a queen

My other have has lots of bees, little eggs (3-5 day stage), and I coudnt find the queen. It was hot and the hive is packed so she may have been there but I just didnt see her. I didnt see any supercedure cells, no queen cells, no evidence of torn down cells, nothing.

If  this is the hive that "swarmed" they could build am emergency queen from the eggs that are still there, i assume. So if they arent doing that then they must not be queenless. I realize that its possible they could have made a new queen and waited till she hatched (which explains the recent eggs) and now my hive has a virgin queen in it but why would they swarm in just a fist size, at this time of year and at that time of day?

Just very odd. Ill wait to see next week what is going on and ill better be able to tell.
Thanks for any comments

Chris

[ChrisT]

Another one just happened. Bugger than a fist this time.. couple to few softballs

Maybe they are cast swarms. But I dont see any queen cells at all in the hive with a queen or the hive where i didnt see a queen

hmmm

[Maggiesdad]

Possible usurpation swarm... in other words, not your bees - but looking to move into and take over one of your hives.

Just thinking out loud here.

[biggraham610]

Secondary swarm. Your hive swarmed, and took the queen followed by a virgin with them the second time. eggs don't last 5 days. eggs hatch in three if I am not mistaken. If what I think happened happened, they have a virgin running around and in a week and a half you will know if she got mated or not. I never let a swarm disappear if I can help it. Good luck. G

[SkepWrangler]

In case you haven't heard: It is possible that the cluster you saw is not a swarm at all. Bees that don't make it home to their own hive, as well as bees that get separated from their swarm will often cluster at the end of the day. That small cluster may be comprised of bees from multiple colonies. I call this clustering "any port in a storm." Clustering near an established hive is typical behavior.  These queenless clusters usually, but not always disperse the next day.
Many times each year I pick through various small clusters to see whether there is a queen there. Sometimes I vacuum them up and test them by putting them in a container that has queen pheromone that they can smell but cannot reach. This is a good way to quickly ascertain if a queen is among them or not, and whether she's a laying queen or virgin. If they don't find the synthetic queen attractive, that is a sure sign a laying queen is in the cluster.  Hope this helps.
Skepwrangler

[GSF]

Funny you should mention that maggiesdad. I just witnessed the aftermath of that the other day. I'd say a softball size swarm tried to move in on a colony 1deep 3 mediums. I found a bunch of dead bees and a small cluster with a queen in it. I thought at first it may have been a mating flight gone wrong but then I saw the additional dead bees.

[ChrisT]

skepwrangler,

Thanks for mentioning that. I have never heard this phenomenon before.
It would explain why i see no queen cells at all and larve in my hive

I will update if i find the queen next weekend or if any delay of egg laying happens