Swarm aversion with Cloake board

[yes2matt]

I have an overflowing hive and I intended to do a cutdown split but couldn't find the Q. What I did find was a q-cup with an egg in it. Still standing up straight this past Saturday, so I have a few days yet. What if I did the following:

- slide the hive over to make room , put a new bottom and empty hive body in the original location. Stock it with empty frames (I don't have any foundation or more drawn comb)
- go thru and shake all the bees into the new box, including the Q. Keep all the (brood)  frames in the old box
- put on a QX
- put on a Cloake board, leave it open
- put the old box on top, all the brood and the swarm cells are there
-after the nurses have come upstairs to cover the brood, close the Cloake board. 
- walk away.

Will the Q+  bees (downstairs)  still want to swarm away even though I've given them a new cavity?

How long should I plan to wait for the nurses to migrate upstairs?

[MikeyN.C.]

Ymatt,  did you find swarm Q-cells ?

[MikeyN.C.]

Ymatt, if you'll go to 2 nd page here there's a good thread on this under title splits.

[BeeMaster2]

Matt,
In about 4 hours the nurse bees will bee in the brood box. The queen should not swarm because you do not have capped queen cells and now she has a new empty box. I would move a frame of honey and one frame of brood to help keep the field bees in the new hive. Move the top hive after 4 hours. Let us know how it works out.
Jim Altmiller

[yes2matt]

Matt,
In about 4 hours the nurse bees will bee in the brood box. The queen should of swarm because you do not have capped queen cells and now she has a new empty box. I would move a frame of honey and one frame of brood to help keep the field bees in the new hive. Move the top hive after 4 hours. Let us know how it works out.
Jim Altmiller

4 hours!  UGH!  What if overnight or a couple days (as long as I beat the capping of the Q-cells)?

It's in the yard that's on my delivery route.  And I can't take the extra boxes and equipment on my delivery truck. :(  But I could ... hurry my sorry butt up and get down there AFTER work, shake them out in the dusk. Since I don't need to see the Q. Then next morning I can slide the Cloake board in as I roll by.

Ok that's the plan.

[yes2matt]

I made some pictures. Not so "you should do this" but instead  "here is what I did, let's see if it works"
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2Bpxo5jL2dFcV3kq8

Things that could mess it up:
> The Q was trimmed down getting ready to fly with the swarm and so could come up thru the QX
> The Q was in the top honey box, I did not shake any bees from there or look at it
> I have only one frame with comb in the box of empties, the rest are foundationless deeps, if they make a big mess of the comb I will be unhappy

The ideal, in a couple weeks:
> The bottom box has nice pretty new worker comb and all full of brood and the big fat Q is running around in there
> The top box is loaded with bees with nothing to do but draw comb and make honey
> Swarm queens are about to emerge from their cells in the top box
> The honey box is very full and partially capped.

So I'll tear it apart the weekend of Easter and post back how it went.

[BeeMaster2]

Matt,
> The Q was trimmed down getting ready to fly with the swarm and so could come up thru the QX.

The queens abdomen is what shrinks. It?s thorax does not change. The thorax is what stops her from getting through the queen excluder.

> The Q was in the top honey box, I did not shake any bees from there or look at it.

Not likely, mated queens don?t usually leave the brood area. If you smoked the top box as you entered the hive this would move a virgin queen down.

Jim Altmiller

[yes2matt]

UPDATE:  It didn't work at all.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2Bpxo5jL2dFcV3kq8
I can see they're going in and out rather vigorously on the Cloake board entrance. So the top colony is doing great. I do not see that they are bringing in pollen. This is what I would expect because I think they are finishing their (swarm) queens up there.
Then I cracked open and got into the bottom box.  I expected to find at least a few frames partially drawn, laid up with eggs, my old queen running around. Instead there is a tiny handful of bees clustered there. I wonder what they think they're doing, because they're not drawing comb and they're not nursing brood. No Q.

I did not inspect the top box, to see whether it was Q+ with the old queen or if maybe she flew off with the bees when I shook them down. There are lots of bees up there, and if they are Q+ they're probably getting ready to swarm. So I need to get in there.

If that's the case, and I just missed her the first time or whatever, I'll try it again. But this time I'll follow Jim's advice and put down a single frame of brood. If that's not the case, and they decided to abscond when I shook them the first time, then I will make about the brood frame for the next time I get in this jam.

[Oldbeavo]

Just do the split, either the split will have the queen or she will be in the old hive.
If she is in the split it will go ahead really quick and the hive will form a new queen that will be unlikely to swarm unless you get an extraordinary good  season.
If she stays in the hive, all good.
I have a friend, commercial beek who makes his splits without searching too hard for the queen, all works in the long run.