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Offline AustinB

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Do you plant for your bees?
« on: May 09, 2021, 06:57:53 pm »
Anyone in the Southeast or South Central climate zones plant crops / flowers specifically for your bees? I?m interested in what you are using and how you like it, small or large scale. I?m going to be planting sunflowers and misc perennials around my hives, but I also have some land that is not currently in ag use, and I?m considering a larger crop of plant specifically for the bees.
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Offline paus

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2021, 07:31:00 pm »
My picture on this site shows me in a field of Lemon Queen Sunflowers planted for Bees and everyone's pleasure, they are next to a road and I always get lots of comments.  There is about 1/2 acre in Sunflowers.

Offline .30WCF

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2021, 08:15:08 pm »
I put in a few sourwood trees and blueberries. I would like to find some flaming sumac to plant in the edge of the woods.


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Offline Pazuzu

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2021, 08:40:58 pm »
small or large scale.

I wouldn?t bother with worrying what to plant in  ?small? scale, ie backyard setting as it will make zero difference for the bees. It?s the other way round and bees will be a benefit for a backyard plants.

Offline .30WCF

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Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2021, 08:55:23 pm »
I?ve tried to have this conversation a time or two. I?ve emailed the bee supply shops around and tried to encourage folks to plant a summer blooming plant or two. The naysayers always say it won?t make a hill of beans. Sure, my 4 sourwood trees won?t do much, but if you talked with the people you knew in the area and over a few years planted 50, or 100 as a group effort, I?ve got to believe it will make a difference. I feel like I don?t have to plant 50 acres of something if I can talk a club into talking their neighbors into letting them plant a couple trees here and there. But that all depends on what kind of contacts you have in your area. If you could get a local nursery to start promoting certain plants, over time it will help.
I would focus on derth relief over pretty spring flowers.


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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2021, 09:03:34 pm »
At my place, we've planted the following for the bees:

Black locust
Honey locust
Silver linden
Littleleaf linden
American basswood
Tupelo
Tulip trees
Japanese lilac trees
Japanese pagoda trees
Decorative plums
Asian pears
Bartlett pears
(I forget) pears
Bing cherries
Utah cherries
Tartarian cherries
Ranier cherries
Tallow trees
6 types of apples
2 types of grapefruit
3 types of oranges
Kumquats
Tangerines
Manderine
Limes
2 types of lemons
Plus various flowering, bee friendly bushes.

... And I forget what else.

I read somewhere, that 2 mature honey locust trees outproduced 10 acres of clover in honey production. Don't know if that's true ... but it's worth trying.

Question: When is the best time to plant a tree? Answer: 20 years ago.
Question: when is the 2nd best time to plant a tree? Answer: today.

Anyways - that what we've done for the last few yrs. I'll let you know in another 20 yrs if it was the right decision.  :cool:
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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2021, 09:06:36 pm »
I?ve tried to have this conversation a time or two. I?ve emailed the bee supply shops around and tried to encourage folks to plant a summer blooming plant or two. The naysayers always say it won?t make a hill of beans. Sure, my 4 sourwood trees won?t do much, but if you talked with the people you knew in the area and over a few years planted 50, or 100 as a group effort, I?ve got to believe it will make a difference. I feel like I don?t have to plant 50 acres of something if I can talk a club into talking their neighbors into letting them plant a couple trees here and there. But that all depends on what kind of contacts you have in your area. If you could get a local nursery to start promoting certain plants, over time it will help.
I would focus on derth relief over pretty spring flowers.


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I agree with everything said. I've got my neighbors planting tree that my bees need also.

My Focus was to have 3 types of tree in bloom each month of the year. (A neighbor has Eucalyptus that flower Nov thru Mar).
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2021, 09:08:05 pm »
I agree with most of the other posts.  If you've got land lying around doing nothing there is no reason not to plant some sort of forage crop on it.  Sunflowers are a great choice, not only for honeys but for native bees as well.  Trees are never ever a bad way to go.  The majority of my major flows here in the mountains are trees, and one tree can produce the same amount of nectar as a cultivated acre or more in many cases.  And focusing on plants that bloom during your dearth is a great way to make a big impact.  Some other non-tree heavy hitters in my experience are borage and sulfur cosmos.       

small or large scale.

I wouldn?t bother with worrying what to plant in  ?small? scale, ie backyard setting as it will make zero difference for the bees. It?s the other way round and bees will be a benefit for a backyard plants.
I?ve tried to have this conversation a time or two. I?ve emailed the bee supply shops around and tried to encourage folks to plant a summer blooming plant or two. The naysayers always say it won?t make a hill of beans. Sure, my 4 sourwood trees won?t do much, but if you talked with the people you knew in the area and over a few years planted 50, or 100 as a group effort, I?ve got to believe it will make a difference. I feel like I don?t have to plant 50 acres of something if I can talk a club into talking their neighbors into letting them plant a couple trees here and there. But that all depends on what kind of contacts you have in your area. If you could get a local nursery to start promoting certain plants, over time it will help.
I would focus on derth relief over pretty spring flowers.


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I agree with WCF, it's drops in a bucket.  Not much to look at, but makes a difference over time.  The way I treat it is that if I'm going to plant something somewhere, for whatever reason, I always pick something that is pollinator friendly over something that is not.  For almost any landscaping or land managing project, you have the option to pick flowers that will be helpful to your local pollinators, and that's always better than choosing some sterile flower that was bred to be showy but has no nectar or pollen. 
 
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Offline .30WCF

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Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2021, 09:10:41 pm »
I?ve tried to have this conversation a time or two. I?ve emailed the bee supply shops around and tried to encourage folks to plant a summer blooming plant or two. The naysayers always say it won?t make a hill of beans. Sure, my 4 sourwood trees won?t do much, but if you talked with the people you knew in the area and over a few years planted 50, or 100 as a group effort, I?ve got to believe it will make a difference. I feel like I don?t have to plant 50 acres of something if I can talk a club into talking their neighbors into letting them plant a couple trees here and there. But that all depends on what kind of contacts you have in your area. If you could get a local nursery to start promoting certain plants, over time it will help.
I would focus on derth relief over pretty spring flowers.


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I agree with everything said. I've got my neighbors planting tree that my bees need also.

My Focus was to have 3 types of tree in bloom each month of the year. (A neighbor has Eucalyptus that flower Nov thru Mar).
I got no reply to my emails from any of the 8 bee supply shops in my area.
I?m frequently met with in conversation, your two trees won?t matter. I guess they are the same people who don?t vote since their one vote won?t matter, but then complain about the results. 


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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2021, 09:39:14 pm »
I got no reply to my emails from any of the 8 bee supply shops in my area.
I?m frequently met with in conversation, your two trees won?t matter. I guess they are the same people who don?t vote since their one vote won?t matter, but then complain about the results. 

Sounds about right.

I live by 2 sayings:

1) 5% of the people think. 10% of people think that they "think". The other 85% would rather die, than think.
2) if you make people "think" that they're thinking, they will love you. But, if you ACTUALLY make them think, they will hate you.

Assuming an average spacing between trees of 25', I can fit 81 trees per acre. That ought to make a difference in honey production. That was my thoughts. (A General Disclaimer: Different trees need different spacing. Some need 40', & some need 12', etc.)

Anyways - I figure I'm right.  :cool:
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline .30WCF

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2021, 09:40:55 pm »
Now your making me think.


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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2021, 09:43:21 pm »
I played around for 3 years with cover crops - alfalfa, clovers, etc. They used too much water, and netted too little return in honey. ... so I switched my thinking to honey producing trees. I do plant mint(s) & clovers around the base of the trees. These add a little for the bees, and keep weeds down, and fix nitrogen into the soil - thus feeding the trees.
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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2021, 09:44:27 pm »
Now your making me think.

I just spit out my beer ...  :cool: :cool: :cool:
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Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2021, 11:47:02 pm »
Austin,
I saw a video seminar by Mike Austin, an arborist and beekeeper, that was very compelling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI-i-aj34Vc. He also claimed that planting landscape flowers made little difference. Instead, almost all honey gain comes from trees blooming in the area, some of which are inconspicuous. While an acre or two of clover might be nice, most people don't have the space. Besides, a couple of grown Linden trees provide even more potential honey gain, and can be grown in a neighborhood yard.
If I can move anytime soon to a more rural area, I plan on the long range investment of the following trees: Linden, pear, sourwood, American holly, chastetree, Tulip poplar, and perhaps a few other fruit trees. And perhaps get permission to plant some saplings around my neighbors' homesteads as well.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2021, 11:52:12 pm »

I live by 2 sayings:

1) 5% of the people think. 10% of people think that they "think". The other 85% would rather die, than think.
2) if you make people "think" that they're thinking, they will love you. But, if you ACTUALLY make them think, they will hate you.

Oh Alan, thank you.  After 25 years of living, I finally understand people.  You have explained the human race to me.     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline AustinB

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2021, 05:19:21 am »
Austin,
I saw a video seminar by Mike Austin, an arborist and beekeeper, that was very compelling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI-i-aj34Vc. He also claimed that planting landscape flowers made little difference. Instead, almost all honey gain comes from trees blooming in the area, some of which are inconspicuous. While an acre or two of clover might be nice, most people don't have the space. Besides, a couple of grown Linden trees provide even more potential honey gain, and can be grown in a neighborhood yard.
If I can move anytime soon to a more rural area, I plan on the long range investment of the following trees: Linden, pear, sourwood, American holly, chastetree, Tulip poplar, and perhaps a few other fruit trees. And perhaps get permission to plant some saplings around my neighbors' homesteads as well.

Thanks for the vid!

Appreciate all the feedback. I follow the line of thought that small increases, though not necessarily quantifiable, are still beneficial. I don't believe I would have to see an increase in honey production in order to make a positive impact (though some people may only be concerned about that aspect.)
We currently have fruit and nut trees on the property, and will soon be adding apples and cherries, as well as a few rows of grapes. We live in a very rural area with rich ag & orchard country. I think if I end up turning a couple acres into something bigger later down the road, it will likely be a plant that provides mid to late season harvest for the bees. Something that will bolster end of year and help prepare for the cold months.
The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
Proverbs 20:7

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Proberbs 16:24

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2021, 10:51:11 pm »
I got no reply to my emails from any of the 8 bee supply shops in my area.
I?m frequently met with in conversation, your two trees won?t matter. I guess they are the same people who don?t vote since their one vote won?t matter, but then complain about the results. 

Sounds about right.

I live by 2 sayings:

1) 5% of the people think. 10% of people think that they "think". The other 85% would rather die, than think.
2) if you make people "think" that they're thinking, they will love you. But, if you ACTUALLY make them think, they will hate you.

Assuming an average spacing between trees of 25', I can fit 81 trees per acre. That ought to make a difference in honey production. That was my thoughts. (A General Disclaimer: Different trees need different spacing. Some need 40', & some need 12', etc.)

Anyways - I figure I'm right.  :cool:


> But, if you ACTUALLY make them think, they will hate you.
Seems about right!  :shocked: :cheesy:.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2021, 05:36:49 pm »
To get back to the OP's question:                 In South / Southeast US --

Try Outside Pride's gulf coast wildflower mix.  The DOT uses this roadside from Pensacola - Tallahassee.  Great forage.  Seeds that germinate in the soil instead of a flowerpot are tougher, because they had to bootstrap their way to the top.
https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/wildflower-seed/gulf-coast-wildflower-seed-mix.html

Agree 100% with Lemon Queen sunflower, if you have a place that will take the height. 

Shrubs/trees: Vitex, vitex and vitex.  Midseason flow, and if you shear with hedge trimmers, an August flow too covered with butterflies. 
A deciduous small tree, it needs irrigation at first but is drought-tolerant when established.
 
No irrigation? Go for natives.  Carolina laurel for early flow, will mature fast.  Coreopsis sown in the dirt.  Elderberry.  Nandina Domestica. 
Late bloomers welcome in the dearth:  Aster and Goldenrod, somewhat invasive Spanish Needle is covered with bees all fall. 
You can buy natives that need little or no care at a nursery like 7 Pines, DeFuniak FL. 
Or, you can check charts like this one:  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/IN1255

Re: does it matter on a half-acre? Yes.  IMHO bees putz around close to the hive in the evenings, and will work later when forage is close.
 

Offline AustinB

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2021, 06:46:11 pm »
To get back to the OP's question:                 In South / Southeast US --

Try Outside Pride's gulf coast wildflower mix.  The DOT uses this roadside from Pensacola - Tallahassee.  Great forage.  Seeds that germinate in the soil instead of a flowerpot are tougher, because they had to bootstrap their way to the top.
https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/wildflower-seed/gulf-coast-wildflower-seed-mix.html

Agree 100% with Lemon Queen sunflower, if you have a place that will take the height. 

Shrubs/trees: Vitex, vitex and vitex.  Midseason flow, and if you shear with hedge trimmers, an August flow too covered with butterflies. 
A deciduous small tree, it needs irrigation at first but is drought-tolerant when established.
 
No irrigation? Go for natives.  Carolina laurel for early flow, will mature fast.  Coreopsis sown in the dirt.  Elderberry.  Nandina Domestica. 
Late bloomers welcome in the dearth:  Aster and Goldenrod, somewhat invasive Spanish Needle is covered with bees all fall. 
You can buy natives that need little or no care at a nursery like 7 Pines, DeFuniak FL. 
Or, you can check charts like this one:  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/IN1255

Re: does it matter on a half-acre? Yes.  IMHO bees putz around close to the hive in the evenings, and will work later when forage is close.
Great info, thank you!
The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
Proverbs 20:7

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Proberbs 16:24

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2021, 08:54:43 am »
Definition of a weed... a plant that grows where you don't want it to grow.
I think some of the wildflower mixes are tough, reseeding perennials that blur the line between flower and weed. Nevertheless, I have been tempted to don dark colored clothes, and at night sneak through the surrounding community sowing seeds under power line thoroughfares and untended lots.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2021, 12:01:29 pm »
You're not the first to think of that.   Great read, with examples.

https://www.honeybeesuite.com/what-is-ethical-beekeeping/

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2021, 12:16:08 pm »
You're not the first to think of that.   Great read, with examples.

https://www.honeybeesuite.com/what-is-ethical-beekeeping/
I was literally just about to post that!  You beat me to it. :grin:
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Offline Brian MCquilkin

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2021, 12:47:25 pm »
Definition of a weed... a plant that grows where you don't want it to grow.
I think some of the wildflower mixes are tough, reseeding perennials that blur the line between flower and weed. Nevertheless, I have been tempted to don dark colored clothes, and at night sneak through the surrounding community sowing seeds under power line thoroughfares and untended lots.
  A few years back I sowed my 12-acre property with crimson clover, white dutch clover, yellow clover, and white clover. Did this for 3 years in a row as the crimson-only flowers every other year. I Walked the roads around the neighborhood and seeded the sides of the roads in all ditches. My next-door neighbor Dave commented how there use to be lots of clover on his property but not so much now. One day When I was bored I went for a walk around his property with my hand seeder, the following year both properties bloomed so well we had people driving by to look at the bloom.  Dave said to me not sure where all that clover came from, I explained that the birds must have eaten all the seed on my property and craped them all over his
Despite my efforts the bees are doing great

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2021, 10:09:36 am »
Good read, Florida and 15.
I have also found the following ethics statement to be of great help in beekeeping.
 "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" It keeps my temptations in check, and keeps me ethical in a great many things, including beekeeping.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2021, 07:23:05 pm »
I think the info that is missing from this post is; how many hives are you trying to feed from your plantings?
2 or 3 hives go for it , 10+ hives maybe, 20+ hives you are talking acres of plantings and spread seasonally. Otherwise its only a snack on the way to Macca's.

Offline AustinB

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2021, 11:20:40 pm »
I think the info that is missing from this post is; how many hives are you trying to feed from your plantings?
2 or 3 hives go for it , 10+ hives maybe, 20+ hives you are talking acres of plantings and spread seasonally. Otherwise its only a snack on the way to Macca's.
Number of hives was an intentional omission. My interest is specifically aimed at anyone who has done, or currently does cultivate ag specifically for their bees. Regardless of the number of hives or the size of the ag.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 12:11:49 pm by AustinB »
The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
Proverbs 20:7

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Proberbs 16:24

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2021, 02:24:10 pm »
Great video!

Trees it is!
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2021, 02:36:47 pm »
I think the info that is missing from this post is; how many hives are you trying to feed from your plantings?
2 or 3 hives go for it , 10+ hives maybe, 20+ hives you are talking acres of plantings and spread seasonally. Otherwise its only a snack on the way to Macca's.
Number of hives was an intentional omission. My interest is specifically aimed at anyone who has done, or currently does cultivate ag specifically for their bees. Regardless of the number of hives or the size of the ag.


Austin their is a fellow in Canada that purposely plants things for his bees. He and his family run a three part, large Ag farm.  Crops, Cattle, and Bees/Honey. Ian Steppler has a youtube channel and post short videos regularly of his day to day experiences about his bees and farm life. I might be wrong and confusing his bee operation with someone else but best to my recollection he has thousands of hives.

Last year he posted of plants purposely planted in spaces between his fields, especially for the intention of boosting pollen and nectar when his regular crops are not in season for such. I do not remember what plants he planted but he was very happy with the results and expressed so in his video. I will try and find if for you.
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AustinB

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2021, 10:56:35 pm »
Ben - Sounds awesome. I?ll have to do some searching. If you find anything further on him I?d love to see it, thanks!
The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
Proverbs 20:7

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Proberbs 16:24

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Do you plant for your bees?
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2021, 11:39:49 pm »
Quote
I live by 2 sayings:
1) 5% of the people think. 10% of people think that they "think". The other 85% would rather die, than think.
2) if you make people "think" that they're thinking, they will love you. But, if you ACTUALLY make them think, they will hate you.

CoolBees my friend; In many cases you might be very close to being right! :shocked: :grin:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

anything