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Offline minz

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Plans for next year?
« on: November 28, 2018, 09:46:23 pm »
I am struggling from year to year with any sort of consistency mostly because I do not seem to do any planning.
I seem to go in a 3 year cycle:
Raise a bunch of queens and nucs and build up. All gear is full (last year)
Get overwhelmed with the amount of bees and honey (this year). All the equipment in the field, nucs get neglected and no or few nucs going into winter. Bees are not set up for winter and I take a crushing loss.
Full on queen production to keep from getting completely out of business. No honey to sell, afraid to sell my excessive nucs.
Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2018, 09:57:18 pm »
I am struggling from year to year with any sort of consistency mostly because I do not seem to do any planning.
I seem to go in a 3 year cycle:
Raise a bunch of queens and nucs and build up. All gear is full (last year)
Get overwhelmed with the amount of bees and honey (this year). All the equipment in the field, nucs get neglected and no or few nucs going into winter. Bees are not set up for winter and I take a crushing loss.
Full on queen production to keep from getting completely out of business. No honey to sell, afraid to sell my excessive nucs.

minz thanks for you post. I would like to build up to several hives myself. I now have 7 and am striving to get them through the winter. That is why I ask so many questions here. I'm trying to do my best to be well informed as to be prepaired to do my part to reach success with my bees. Your mentioning equipment is something that I have also recognized as being critical. We must have it at our finger tips when needed, not in a week or two. I've resolved that while in the winter months I must build as much woodware as I am seeking to fill with bees for the coming season. I am beginning to learn why Jim calls himself sawdustmaker!!! I have plenty of that on hand!! 
Thanks
Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Sour Kraut

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2018, 08:30:17 am »
"equipment is something that I have also recognized as being critical. We must have it at our finger tips when needed, not in a week or two."

Excellent summation !!

The thing I've seen is a lot of folks, even 'seasoned beekeepers', fall into the trap of discovering that they need more equipment, and put off ordering or going personally to get it,  they think ' I can get it shipped next day', and do not take into account the immense amount of time required for assembly.

If you need 20 deeps TOMORROW, it doesn't matter how many are in the warehouse at Dadant's, Mann Lake or Kelley's, and how much you are willing to pay for shipping.

Likewise, even if the twenty deeps are sitting in your garage un-assembled, unless you have a wife, girl-friend, kids, grand-kids, cousins, uncles, aunts, grandma or grandpa who know what to do, in good form, to assist, you are not going to have twenty deeps, frames, foundation ready by the next morning.

PREPARATION......can't say it enough.

And a pet peeve.......those who think it can be done 'on the cheap'......this is an expensive hobby (or small business, take your pick); there's nothing even remotely 'cheap' about setting up even one new colony.  Either get serious about it or get out, sounds harsh and cruel but that's the way it is.



Offline Kathyp

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2018, 11:58:45 am »
Sort my equipment and try to start again with a couple of hives next year.  I have small goals   :grin:
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2018, 05:22:58 pm »
It is a tough thing to control.  If you are successful as a bee-person, your hives will be healthy and productive.  Healthy and productive hives expand and multiply, near exponentially. It is very very difficult to -keep up- with the bees if you are actually any good at keeping them healthy.  Good beekeepers have a tough time keeping bees, because they end up with more bees than can be kept!

Step #1 Goal - Target.  This is the reality check and inward reflection. The annual plan must set a FIRM target of number of colonies to be managed for the season. Be brutaly honest and realistic in of that number. Set it based on the number of yards / hives that you can get to within a week. A 7 to 10 day round. How hard do you want to go at it.  It is fun and leisurely or is this core work for you. Estimate your round capability on being busy and working hard but not over-working.  Once you have that number, that is your target apiary size. 

Step #2 Estimate: requirements are dictated based on that apiary target size.  Equipment needed to hold all the bees, equipment for handling and processing, labour (help) as the season progresses, number of splits and queens you need to make, real estate space to operate and storage, marketing and distribution of the products that come out of it: honey, wax, pollen, bees, queens, whatever. Ultimately these lead to setting a budget for each phase.  Budget is not just money.  In the bee business, the crucial budget is TIME. The queen and her bees wait for no man.  Set the time budget first, then the dollars follow. When the dollars estimate reveals constraints then go back and reduce the target apiary size to be within it.

Step #3 Schedule.  Make up your schedule of bee work for the year.  The season from one geographic area to another will be different.  However each season within an area is NOT unique.  There are things that are going on inside the beehive and out around the beehive during each period (each month) of the year. Weather extremes and other factors may vary which will shift progress ahead or back on the calendar but generally things will happen as and when they should in sequence. What I mean by this is know the bee season, the beehive annual cycle, and when each phase appears on the calendar.  Set your schedule so the right work is done at the right time, ahead of time, so as to be well aware and prepared for each phase.  Via your weekly round through the apiary, the bees will queue you as to what phase you are in or are about to enter.  Be done your work ahead of the bees needs.

Step #4 Contingencies.  In other words, over coming challenges and barriers. What sorts of things can get in the way of achieving the target?  Limited budget (TIME and $), winter losses, disease epidemic, equipment supply shortage, labour shortage, wildlife damage such as bears hornets wasps skunks etc. Play out some scenarios on paper and have contingency plans for each of them so if and when they happen you are able to act promptly on the fly without delay. Expect the unexpected.

Step #5 Results - Adjustments. By this step you have a set target apiary size and everything lined up above to achieve it, including the how and when it will be done. If the bees exceed target, then sell off nucs queens even complete hives. Unload the colonies and equipment before they become excess strain on your budget (TIME). Remember, if you are actually any good as a bee-person you will not be able to keep up with the bees. Stay within target. If the bees under perform, downsize the plan and the equipment for the season. The schedule does NOT change. Put stuff in storage or sell off bits to recoup. Use the new found extra time to reflect on what you are doing, are not doing, or have been doing wrong which have caused the target to be missed.

Go back to Step #1 and begin creating the next years plan.


Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 07:12:28 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 05:35:38 pm »
TheHoneyPump {Hope that helps}

Well done! Couldn't be any clearer, thanks!
Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2018, 08:04:57 pm »
It's been on my mind also, I'm hoping to start next year with 5 good hives from this year. Need to requeen one hot hive that has just gotten meaner over the last few years. Swarm control is foremost which was done this year by splits but at five Hives I'm pretty much maxed out for equipment but can go to six if needed. Might build two or three nucs and sell them locally just to relieve the early buildup and use for swarm control as well as a little income.
      I'm hoping for a good honey crop so finding an outlet is also a very high priority. Possibly one weekend a month at the local farmer's market but the time spent at selling honey will compete with time needed working the hives and extractions.  I was up to eight hives a while back and got a bit overwhelmed with the work load so five or six is my limit. Need to set a weekly bee schedule and keep to it if at all possible.
    This year was a success with expansion, mite and SHB control so maintaining what I have is the long term goal for next year. Of course man plans and the Gods laugh.
   

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 01:31:37 pm »
I lost a hive to robbing last year. I got two nucs reserved for me from a local dealer. I have one more extra hive body that I would like to get a hive for and move to my new house.

Offline minz

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 11:20:58 pm »
Make a plan, follow a plan.
OK so limit it to 20 production honey hives.
try to keep the numbers at no less than 5 production at each location (one in boring will be 4 tops). It takes too long to relocate

requeen in mid summer. Graft in the home yard, mate in the Estacada yard,

do I mark and replace queens as priority and raise nucs for overwinter after that?

put one double palmer nuc each yard.

What do I do with nucs that overwinter? if the queen is last summers i need her into production. Sell the unknown in 5 frames? I guy here in the club gets $175 for a 5 frame over winter. Selling a couple of nucs each year and some queens would be easy (more so than selling honey).

What date do I call it for a reset of hive numbers for selling- assume early spring. if I can put nucs for sale before the california production hives I will be able to sell them all.

Do I make up some nucs? Last year the spring was too wet and cold to graft so I told the cousin that if he purchased some queens I would give him 5 frames of bees for each one. Made me think if I could get some $30 queens I could turn $20 a frame of bees easy.

Poor decisions make the best stories.

Online BeeMaster2

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2018, 07:50:08 am »
Bee sure to add going to BeeFest to your list. It will bee March 15, 16 and 17 here at my farm in NE Florida.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline minz

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 12:01:03 am »
I should have seen that earlier! I was hung up in chi town last year and SW air gave me a $100 voucher. I refused to let that go and just booked a trip to Vegas.

Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Plans for next year?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 04:55:26 pm »
If need income to offset expenses or even for modest profit, the plan should reflect the decision on the primary focus of the operation on honey/wax production OR on livestock (bees/queens). Inherently, self sustaining beekeeping includes all of it, yet it is necessary to be clear on your PRIMARY focus for the season. 

Imho - Unless there is equipment setup for a considerable volume of honey and have distribution (customers) prearranged,  .... the smaller operations will find it simpler, less labour, and appreciable more money to be made by focusing on the livestock - nucleus and queen sales.

For consideration.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 08:26:33 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline beepro

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2018, 08:04:34 pm »
You have to take a look at your bee environment first in order to determine what is the best course of action.  This will plan your operation automatically going with the bee trend. If you go against the local bee environment then you are struggling through every season. Let's say you have 3 main out yards and you've found out that yard #1 is good for honey production, yard #2 is good for raising queens, and yard #3 is good for raising bees. 

Your task is to dedicate each out yard for each individual operation so that you can manage them all as a whole.  Doing so will help you focus more on maximizing your bee's operation.  Have you identify which yard is good for your bee environment yet?

My main yard is good for grafting queens (local DCA is only 14 minutes away) only as honey production is very very weak through out the season.  Some other beekeepers' yard can produce honey from May until Sept. 

So for me to graft queens from mid-Feb. all the way through Oct. will maximize my bee operation very much.  If I set my hives up for honey harvest operation then it will take lots of work and might not be able to achieve my goal for that season.  If my hives are set up close to the sunflower fields on the farm then honey harvest is my main operation for that year.   If you have all 3, queen rearing, honey production and bees making in the same yard then you're in Bee Heaven!   So far I've only found queen rearing and bees making a strong operation here.  Lots of bee pollen to sell.

Sometime you just have to step back and let the bees decide what is good for them as well as for your operation.   Focus, focus and focus!  Maximize, maximize and maximize their full potential!

Offline minz

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2018, 11:23:04 pm »
It rains here until June. If we get a dry, late spring like this year I can make a crop of early light. It happens about every 3rd year. I try to get it off the hives and turn the drawn comb in time for our primary flow of blackberry (mid May-mid June).
One of the commercial beeks is very active and puts on a presentation ?How to  make a lot of honey in the valley? the first slide says-Move out of the valley. It is a joke because after the blackberry there isn?t anything until the following spring. I start feeding in August.
I harvested about 9 buckets of honey this year and just closed the honey stand. I now know that I could have unloaded half of it in ? gallons for $35 each all day long. I try to get $5 a pound.
Wax does not really move. I have blocks of it. Candles just sit. I can move 1 oz blocks for $1 but they do not fly off the shelf.
The successful bee stock producers are active on Social media and go into the downtown meeting of the urban beeks (PUB). I suppose I could start hanging out downtown one night a month

Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2018, 01:03:21 am »
Minz, looking at your questions.  Here are a few thoughts and comments, for your consideration

1 --- Make a plan, follow a plan.
* Yes, exactly.  Follow the plan, yet have a bit of flexibility built into the plan (contingencies) to adjust to what the season throws at you.  Know your upper limit, stay within it.


2 --- OK so limit it to 20 production honey hives.
try to keep the numbers at no less than 5 production at each location (one in boring will be 4 tops). It takes too long to relocate
* That is a very fine number and a very fine outline of your plan.


3 --- requeen in mid summer. Graft in the home yard, mate in the Estacada yard,
* Requeening philosophy varies by what the primary focus is for the apiary. The next comments are respecting to PLANNED re-queening due to age or changing of genetics. Queen replacement due to her failing health or performance problems are unplanned to be dealt with separately. Which queens to put on your re-queening plan and when to do it depends on your goals.
- The queen should be proactively replaced based on age before problems develop. The older the queens in your apiary get the more unplanned queen problems you will have to deal with, such as supercedures, drone layers, swarming, etc.  To keep a baseline as consistent as possible it is suggested you target 2 years for replacement. As example, in my bee yards the queens are age tracked and are queued to be pinched at 2 years.  2 winters, 2 summers. The oldest would be 3 winters, 2 summers.  1st winter she is fresh and new that summer been building up a wintering nuc. The next spring she is put into a production hive. 2nd winter she is in main hive. 2nd summer she is in production. She is replaced in the fall before the 3rd winter or she is left in main hive and is pulled out in the spring to be put into a resource hive or a nuc sale. Whether she dodges the hive tool to make it into that 3rd winter depends on how many new queens I have left by end of the summer after all sales and unplanned replacements (queen failures) and the number wintering nuc colonies ready for winter. In the fall a nuc takes priority over a hive with an old queen.
- If you are going for high honey yield, re-queen 1-1/2 weeks (10 days) BEFORE the peak of the highest flow. Bees make a lot more honey if they have no brood to raise. The break from new queen introduction 10 days prior, causes a brood gap at peak flow and massive crops.
- If you are going for making and selling bees, then leave the queens alone and defer any re-queening until at end of summer to mid-fall. Continue to split, harvesting brood and bees all summer long, making up nucs and packages for sale every week.  See comment further on nucs below.
- If you are just beekeeping and thinking of re-queening haphazardly, my suggestion is do not do that. Have a proactive replacement cycle or leave them to naturally bee. Let the bees tell you when they need a new queen, via signs of supercedure or lagging colony. Goto your resource hives, to get what the main hive needs when it needs it, which may include a queen.



4 --- do I mark and replace queens as priority and raise nucs for overwinter after that?
* See #3 above and comments about nucs below.  Your priority is the winter nucs, those are next year's apiary. Unless you do not plan on having an apiary next year.  Did I forget to explicitly mention that your plan is a 2 year rolling plan?  Some of the activities you are doing under this year's plan is setting up the apiary for next year --> the winter nucs.


5 --- put one double palmer nuc each yard.
* A GREAT contingency plan. Makes for prompt requeening or brood boosting on the spot the same day of your round upon discovery of a problem in a main hive. Those are resource hives, to be used to support the main hives with brood, bees, or even a queen if necessary. If you deplete a resource hive, immediately get another one started by drawing from the other resource hives/nucs.


6 --- What do I do with nucs that overwinter? if the queen is last summers i need her into production. Sell the unknown in 5 frames? I guy here in the club gets $175 for a 5 frame over winter. Selling a couple of nucs each year and some queens would be easy (more so than selling honey).
* See comments in #3 above.  Use the wintered nucs to replace the queens and bees that you are cycling out of your apiary as per your annual plan. You put the wintered nucs, the new queen and bees frames that you spent all that time raising last season, you put those into YOUR hives. The queens, some bees and some brood that you are taking out of the hives as per your plan, those are what you sell. Sell only the good ones. Those older but proven viable good queens and her healthy bees and some brood. Increase the size and strength of those sale nucs by the excess strength that you are stripping off the hives  (see #7 below).  Please do not sell the worn out queens or diseased bees/nucs for the newbees to fail. Be responsible and kill those yourself.
 

7 --- What date do I call it for a reset of hive numbers for selling- assume early spring. if I can put nucs for sale before the california production hives I will be able to sell them all.
* This is where knowing the bee season for your area and the pre-scheduling out the full year of your bee work comes in.  What month and week is the peak flow(s) for your area?  Subtract 6 to 8 weeks on the calendar. I use 6 weeks. The rational behind that number is:  3 weeks egg to bee + 3 weeks bee to flower = 6 weeks. That date 6 to 8 weeks earlier, that is your call date - your NUMBERS SET date. For example: if your seasonal peak nectar flow is July 7, subtracting 6 weeks means your hives have to be setup and ready by May 26 and your latest call date is the week of May 26. As you get more experience and consistent in your spring management you will be able to make the call date even earlier than 6 weeks, perhaps 10 weeks. You must get through all of your hives and your spring work before that date. By that date you need to have setup each hive to be on a brood cycle projection path to peak in colony size at the flow 6 weeks later. Another factor is how many boxes of bees do you want each of those hives to be at 6 weeks later? Just how big do you want the hives to be? That determines how much strength you need to be seeing in the hives 6 weeks earlier when you are setting them up.  So, by your call date you know the number of hives you have and you know how much excess strength you will be stripping away in excess nucs and excess hives excess queens which will be sold off or given away. If you have no buyers or takers, you only need to decide what do to with the excess such as culling (shake outs) OR purposely letting specific hives swarm off OR even try testing your mettle by combining some to make a few massive mega-hives ;)



8 --- Do I make up some nucs? Last year the spring was too wet and cold to graft so I told the cousin that if he purchased some queens I would give him 5 frames of bees for each one. Made me think if I could get some $30 queens I could turn $20 a frame of bees easy.
* It is good practice for your plan to always, every year, have 20 to 30 percent of your target apiary size duplicated in nucleus colonies.  For example if your target main hives is 20 for the year. You should try to have between 4 and 6 nucleus colonies that are on the go and that you ultimately intend to take through winter. Meaning your total colonies is actually 26.  20 are main production hives, 6 are nucleus hives.  Go higher such as 50 percent or more if you are planning to have nuc sales as a mainstream offering in spring and early summer next year.  Some years you will use them all to make up for your winter losses.  Some years you will have plenty to sell.  Note, if the addition of this percentage of nucleus colonies breaches your target apiary size limit, then simply reduce the overall apiary size to get back in line such as reduce from 20 mains to 16 mains.  Keep the hive to nuc ratio to about 4 (#hives divided by #nucs = 4).



One man's perspective on your questions; to get you thinking and generate ideas, or variations thereof, that need to be included in your plan. You should expect to spend up to 40% of your time planning. The rest of your time is the mechanics of executing what that planning has actually set out for you to be doing. 
What is planning? ....  A proper plan:
- clearly states your goals
- identifies the tasks
- identifies the resources needed for each task
- sets the schedule
- has contingencies built-in

. ... Methods, philosophies, and levels of successes will vary by the beekeeper.


Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 12:54:05 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2018, 03:18:20 pm »
One plan for maybe next year or the next is to move a hive out to my new house and see how much the honey is different than from my old hive locations.

Offline gww

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2018, 04:05:58 pm »
bwallace
Quote
One plan for maybe next year or the next is to move a hive out to my new house and see how much the honey is different than from my old hive locations.

That was my plan this year and I ended up being too lazy to do it.  It is probably my plan for next year also.
Cheers
gww

Offline minz

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2018, 09:08:21 pm »
One plan for maybe next year or the next is to move a hive out to my new house and see how much the honey is different than from my old hive locations.
huge differences here. The spot out in eagle creek does a nice spring crop (double per hive what it is here at home).
Home seems to do a better summer crop (blackberry)
I have a couple of hives over in downtown Boring that for years I would not get queens mated.everything is within a 10 minute drive of the other.

Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline minz

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 09:26:06 pm »
Minz, looking at your questions.  Here are a few thoughts and comments, for your consideration

Hope that helps!
I missed the parts in between until just now. I thought that I do not type that much and went back and read it.
For me I need to check the production hives every 10 days. At that time frame, worse case I will have a capped queen cell. from there the delema comes up: pull the frame to a queen castle, move the queen and frame to a nuc, Cull the queen cell and in exactly 10 days later have another for the queen castle.
Nucs are easy. i usually just peak at them. They usually do not swarm or need supering. they hardly figure into my plan.
Problem is if I steal too many frames of bees from a production hive, I no longer have a production hive.
This year I did pretty well with the half frames for mating. Unfortunately I tried to move the half frames to nucs and they did poor. Where I pulled the queens to a cage and marshmellow and put in a queenless hive (pinch) they did well. I need to be on track to get the next round of queen cells to the 1/2 frames and I was not that organized.
Do you do the 1/2 frames?
Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline beepro

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Re: Plans for next year?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 04:58:35 am »
If you manage the production hives well, you don't have to check them every 10 days.  I use the early Spring queens to requeen all of my production hives.  So the production hives will be headed by a newly mated Spring queen.  The 2nd year or older queens will go in to 5 frame nucs to provide broods for the production hives when the flow is on.  I only use the first year queens for the production hives whenever possible according to my local bee environment.  For you to follow the yearly bee cycles, you have to time it out every year.
If nucs are easy for you then make lots of them for the early Spring sales.  I'm sure the overwintered nucs are worth something there.  So if you vary your plan and methods then you will have something for sale and some left over for your operation too.  It is just lots of narrowing down to what you want to do in your bee situation.  Just focus on what you are able to maximize with the bees in each out yard.  If queens cannot be mated then try to collect some pollen for sale or make patty subs for your bees.  You can move wax and candles with value added work and sell them on the ecommerce site online.  For this to work you have to know your market and be a bit creative.  It is very easy for a beekeeper to lost focus when overwhelmed with lots of different beekeeping activity.  Somehow I believe that you have not explored all of your options yet.  There is still more room to grow!