NUCS

[bwallace23350]

So I am in the process of securing me two nucs for April of next year. My first hives were packages. Is there any treatment difference I will need when establishing them?

[Ben Framed]

Good question. I wonder also.  I am going to take a wild (guess). Unless someone with experience and knowledge of this type situation chimes in, I would "guess" give the new nuc enough time to get settled in. Most likely the seller has already made every effort to make sure his bees are as healthy as possible, so they (should) be in good health when you receive them. but just to be safe, I would give them a couple weeks to a month and treat them then for mites.  I would start precautions for beetles immediately. I might, just might, locate them in another location away form my established hives just for safety precautions for the same general time period?

Phillip 

[bwallace23350]

THey come from a reputable seller and are located within my country so I hope they are good.

[iddee]

First, ask your supplier. He knows best for your area.
Secondly, NEVER treat for mites until after a mite count and a need is found. Prophylactic treatments are why we have resistant mites.
Thirdly, inspect the nuc on the day of pickup and then let settle til dusk or dark, to be sure all foragers are at home.
Then treat as a normal hive.

[Ben Framed]

Good advice iddee, thanks for chiming in with your experience.   But this does bring a question from "NEVER treat for mites until after a mite count and a need is found. Prophylactic treatments are why we have resistant mites."
The question. Has Mites treated with Oxalic Acid been shown, or in fear of being or beginning to show,  resistant to the OA? Is is suspected or feared that the Mites will soon or will ever build up a resistant to acid treatment?
Thanks, Phillip

[bwallace23350]

First, ask your supplier. He knows best for your area.
Secondly, NEVER treat for mites until after a mite count and a need is found. Prophylactic treatments are why we have resistant mites.
Thirdly, inspect the nuc on the day of pickup and then let settle til dusk or dark, to be sure all foragers are at home.
Then treat as a normal hive.

So do you mean pick up the hive at dusk or dark?

[iddee]

Yes, or all your foragers will be in the field foraging. It will take the nuc a week or more to convert house bees to make a new field force. The alternative is to have the supplier screen them in at night and pick them up early the next morning.

[Ben Framed]

@ iddee Good advice iddee, thanks for chiming in with your experience.   But this does bring a question from "NEVER treat for mites until after a mite count and a need is found. Prophylactic treatments are why we have resistant mites."
The question. Has Mites treated with Oxalic Acid been shown, or in fear of being or beginning to show,  resistant to the OA? Is is suspected or feared that the Mites will soon or will ever build up a resistant to acid treatment? Also, being this will be new nucs, how many bees would you suggest donating to the count?  When would you do this count?

Thanks, Phillip

[iddee]

Has it been proven they will not become tolerant or resistant?
Is it a waste of time and money to treat when not needed, plus disturbing the hive and losing a day or more of foraging?
I use the sugar shake, so no bees are killed. They are fed a bit of sugar, tho, which is much better than gassing them for no reason.

[Ben Framed]

Has it been proven they will not become tolerant or resistant?
Is it a waste of time and money to treat when not needed, plus disturbing the hive and losing a day or more of foraging?
I use the sugar shake, so no bees are killed. They are fed a bit of sugar, tho, which is much better than gassing them for no reason.

I really don't know either way. That's why I ask you. You came across that it is a distinct possibility even as much so as to shout it out in capital letters NEVER? Therefore I ask you the serious questions that you may know the answers to. You are the expert  here not me. I am trying to learn from you. Surely you are not trying to learn from me? Or we will both may be in trouble!!!  Ah haa  haa ha. OA only cost pennies per hive? So I don't see the problem with money. Now as far as time. Isn't that what bees take? Time and care? But I don't want to  contribute to building up resistance to Mites so I ask you, the above questions, to you one of the experts. That's why I joined here to learn from you. And other experts.
Thanks, Phillip
 

[iddee]

Sorry, but the experts don't know yet. Why waste time and money, even in small amounts, when not necessary? Even a trickle will empty a large container ina period of time. Since it is so easy to do a sugar shake, and be sure, why take a chance?

I don't think it takes a very experienced beek to answer those questions. In fact, they are almost self explanatory.

A doctor's vows.... "First, do no harm", or similar.

[Ben Framed]

Sorry, but the experts don't know yet. Why waste time and money, even in small amounts, when not necessary? Even a trickle will empty a large container ina period of time. Since it is so easy to do a sugar shake, and be sure, why take a chance?

I don't think it takes a very experienced beek to answer those questions. In fact, they are almost self explanatory.

A doctor's vows.... "First, do no harm", or similar.

   I value your opinion because of your years of experience.  I automatically assume that you have done your homework through the years and steady seeking to learn more about the honeybee. Thats why I ask you the original question about OA treatment build up to resistance.  I was thinking by your crisp answer, that you may intact know of something new the experts are looking into or perhaps found. That perhaps the bees are starting to show, or it is feared by some research that things were headed that way, the way of resistance. 
  How much does sugar cost for the shake?  Im not experienced enough to know, Probably pennies.  OA treatment pennies. How much time for a sugar shake? I don't know.  An OA treatment? Maybe 2 minutes, after electrical hook up.  Is the sugar shake a positive accurate results for mite count? I don't know. Is it as positive as an alcohol wash?  I don't know that either.  Is OA claimed to  have good results? According to experts, yes.  I do see your point on the possible buildup and resistance and point well taken.  That was my initial question to you concerning the resistance build up in the first place. I can't quote the article, some researchers, said that the small hive beetle can sub-stain the effects of OA because of their hard protective shell, and their type of respiratory system sort of like the reason the bee doesn't sustain harmful effects. The mite has soft body parts that are vulnerable to the effects of the acid vapors. Therefore the OA is not a poison to the mites. but an weapon.  If the mite has started mutating, and growing a hard resistant shell, which  I hadn't heard of, then resistance will be unavoidable. That is of corse their respiratory system can take the vapors without any ill effects similar to the honeybee and the small hive beetle.  If you had heard something new, I certainly wanted to know.  Thanks for your years of beekeeping experience and sharing it here.   
Thanks, Phillip   

[iddee]

You will always find my answers to be short and tart. I don't like to type.
You are asking questions to which nobody has the answers.
Waste is waste, no matter how small. Sugar shake is effective. I have never done an alcohol wash. I don't like killing bees other than apitherapy.
The nice thing about beekeeping is, everyone can do it their own way. I see a lot of beeks killing queen cells and buying more bees when they swarm anyway, and other wasteful things. I prefer to do as little "keeping" and as much "watching" as I can.

[Ben Framed]

You will always find my answers to be short and tart. I don't like to type.
You are asking questions to which nobody has the answers.
Waste is waste, no matter how small. Sugar shake is effective. I have never done an alcohol wash. I don't like killing bees other than apitherapy.
The nice thing about beekeeping is, everyone can do it their own way. I see a lot of beeks killing queen cells and buying more bees when they swarm anyway, and other wasteful things. I prefer to do as little "keeping" and as much "watching" as I can.

I have never done an alcohol wash either for the same general reason as you.  But in the future, i might consider it if its is truly effective as being accurate.  Being my first year and doing splits, I felt I needed as many extra bees as possible.  I have needed all I can get.  Nor do I plan to kill queen cells when that same cell, placed in a mating nuc seems much more efficient.

[beepro]

The nucs will grow much faster since they are already established.   I keep nucs all season long. 
You can even combine the nucs to make one full hive if you want using plastic QE.   Feed them well and
give them lots of extra room to roam as they can build up quickly.   

[minz]

So to know what you would do different we would need to know what you did last time. The nuc will have capped brood so as mentioned you will not have the advantage of a broodless nuc to hit with OAD.
Did you have drawn comb before and do you now? That stuff is gold for getting a hive up and running and will make a world of difference of how they expand and how much you can feed without them plugging up the brood nest for you.
Did you mean County or was country correct on your second post?
When I make up my nucs with a queen cell I hit them with OAD at day 19. No I do not check them, I know that it is in-expensive, easy on new queens and no capped brood. You will not be in that situation.

[TheHoneyPump]

The nucs will grow much faster since they are already established.   
.....   ....   ...
give them lots of extra room to roam as they can build up quickly.

This. 

Then wrt everything else, beekeep it the same as a typical hive.  Only difference is a smaller population, initially.

[bwallace23350]

So to know what you would do different we would need to know what you did last time. The nuc will have capped brood so as mentioned you will not have the advantage of a broodless nuc to hit with OAD.
Did you have drawn comb before and do you now? That stuff is gold for getting a hive up and running and will make a world of difference of how they expand and how much you can feed without them plugging up the brood nest for you.
Did you mean County or was country correct on your second post?
When I make up my nucs with a queen cell I hit them with OAD at day 19. No I do not check them, I know that it is in-expensive, easy on new queens and no capped brood. You will not be in that situation.

Yeah I meant county. THey are probably only 30 miles from where I will have my bees as the crow flies. My first hives were three years ago and they were packages. I should have some old comb left over. On the packages they were my first ever hives so everything was brand new. This will make year 4 for me but my first nucs.

[Sour Kraut]

'Treatment difference' as in:

1) how to set up the colony ?

or

2) treatment for mites, etc ?

If # 1, setting up a nuc is simplicity itself, place the five (or however many) frames in the center of a ten (or more) frame box, being careful of the queen; you probably should remove ALL the frames from the bigger box, then transfer from the nuc two or three frames together till you have them all in, in the same order as in the nuc, then fill out the sides with either drawn combs (preferable if you have them) or full sheets of foundation

Make sure they have adequate feed, a quart jar of 1:1 over the hole in the inner cover, inside an empty medium, is VEERY good insurance against a stretch of bad weather

If # 2..........check in a few weeks and treat as needed.

[beepro]

If it is still too cold in early Spring then wait awhile until the nucs have build up a little.  Then
put in the drawn comb or foundation.  This is so that the bees can reserve some heat to avoid the
chilled brood situation in a cold environment.  Personally, I would wait for the flow then put in the extra
drawn comb or foundation if they are not overcrowding the nuc box.