Feeding sugar cakes of sugar patties.

[Ben Framed]

This is my first year. This will be my first time feeding sugar patties (cakes). There are several ways and methods of doing this and Im sure that I have not discovered them all. I understand that they are a good form of Insurance to make sure that the bees have plenty of food source through the cold winter months. I have also heard and read that they help absorb condensation. I can understand how this will be, but as far as details, I don't know what to expect.  I will ask you, once the patties are made and set up in the hive,  the condensation will draw into them.  Now, during the upcoming nights and days, do the patties continuously draw moisture, dry out, draw moister, dry out ? Or do they draw moisture until finally completely soaked and stay soaked for the rest of winter or until consumed? Of course, if the hive is set up correctly with the proper ventilation, and top, the condensation at the top of the hive should be at a minimum. But again, will it build up in the sugar patties?
Thanks, Phillip Hall

[cao]

I use sugar bricks which when dry are the consistancy of sugar cubes that you would put in your coffee.  I would assume that during the winter they get damp and stay relatively moist most of the time.  If the bees are feeding on them, they willl tunnel through them feeding on the moist areas, leaving the dryer part to continue to collect moisture.  I know when I check on them late winter/early spring the sugar bricks are more moist then when I put them in the hive in the fall. I would assume that they are going to stay wet all winter unless the bees lick them dry.  Hope this helps some.

[Ben Framed]

I use sugar bricks which when dry are the consistancy of sugar cubes that you would put in your coffee.  I would assume that during the winter they get damp and stay relatively moist most of the time.  If the bees are feeding on them, they willl tunnel through them feeding on the moist areas, leaving the dryer part to continue to collect moisture.  I know when I check on them late winter/early spring the sugar bricks are more moist then when I put them in the hive in the fall. I would assume that they are going to stay wet all winter unless the bees lick them dry.  Hope this helps some.

Thanks, cao. That is what I was guessing too. I mean about the staying moist part. After I read your reply I got to ]thinking about the (candy) thats in the end of a queen cage, when I ordered some queens this season and they were pretty much dry.  The bees ate through them even so. but I tend to agree with you, thats its logical for the bees to be able to eat it better moist than dry.  Thanks for your reply. Phillip Hall   

[beepro]

In my experience from feeding sugar cakes for the last 4 years, it all depends on the hive condition.  So the 4 seasons bee environment has been tested and monitored over time to track the hives situation on these cakes.  My main question is how do the bees react and esp. on hive growth if food is available all year long?  This lead to some interesting sugar cakes learning experience as well.  For one the outside bee environment affect the sugar more than the inside hive environment.  I remember that in one year (2014) we had lots of fogs that winter creating a high moisture condition inside the hives.  All the frames in the top box got wet and moldy.  So not enough ventilation inside to produce a warm and cozy winter bee environment for them.
The sugar cakes did their best to absorb the excess moisture coming from the bees and the fogs.  The sugar cakes were not soggy.  They maintain their proper moisture level after completely saturated by the bees and fogs.  There were no excess water dripping on them since it is a 2 level boxes for over wintering.  The cluster stays in the bottom box.  This is the winter hive environment then.

Over our entire summer this season, I've been feeding them sugar cakes also.  The cakes dried out during the day time but the bees re-moist it to tunnel through.  They don't eat the cakes that much.  During the summer dearth here they will fetch water to re-moist the cakes.  All the cakes stay dry the entire summer.  This does not stop the bees from eating them though very slowly.  Must be that the cakes got too dry/hard for them to eat.

During the early Spring hive expansion/build up time they will use up to 4 lbs. of sugar every 2 weeks depending on the hive population.  These hives have an average of 4 frame of bees.  No early flow during that time yet.  So the demand for sugar is high during this initial brood rearing time.  I will respond by stacking 2 level of 3" cakes on the top bars.  Monitor the hives to add more cakes when needed as every hive's growth rate is not the same. Once the Spring flow is on they will drag the loose sugar bits out of the hives.  Honey supers on!

Now that we've enter Autumn with cooler nights the bees use up the cakes much faster than the summer time.  There is a Fall build up going on too.  I have to add another round of patty subs and cakes today.  Still collecting more data since feeding over time is a slow monitoring process.   Many more little bee experiment needed to be done to learn more!

[Ben Framed]

Thank you beepro for sharing your interesting experamces!! I am working and would like to ask you a couple questions when I get a chance ..
Thanks  again, Phillip

Ok, I'm back.  What I want to ask is, Do you feed sugar syrup as well?  Do you feed sugar cakes year-round except during the honey flows?
Thanks, Phillip Hall

[AR Beekeeper]

Ben Framed;  I see you are in MS, there is a couple of videos on YouTube by Steve Coy called Honey in the South East that you may want to watch.  He is in Wiggins, but his family has bees all over MS and AR.

[Ben Framed]

Ben Framed;  I see you are in MS, there is a couple of videos on YouTube by Steve Coy called Honey in the South East that you may want to watch.  He is in Wiggins, but his family has bees all over MS and AR.

Thank you AR I look 👀 forward  to watching these videos. Appreciate it!!
Phillip

[beepro]

Yes, Mr. Ben.  I only feed sugar cakes because the bees cannot store them in
the cells.  This will make pure honey during the flow. The other 3 seasons I feed them
the sugar cakes and patty subs. If you want to feed the syrup then mark the syrup frame with a small piece of duct tape on the top bar.  This way you know which one is the syrup frame to not mix in with the real honey.  Still I'm careful so will not feed them syrup when the flow is on.  I also found out that they don't need syrup once the hives are on the high protein patty subs and sugar cakes.   So no syrup is store in the hives!

[Ben Framed]

Ben Framed;  I see you are in MS, there is a couple of videos on YouTube by Steve Coy called Honey in the South East that you may want to watch.  He is in Wiggins, but his family has bees all over MS and AR.

Thank you for the information AR. I watched the videos. Between he and his dad, they run quite an operation! It was interesting to see how a (local)  operation of this size works.  Again Thanks,  Phillip Hall

[sc-bee]

Yes, Mr. Ben.  I only feed sugar cakes because the bees cannot store them in
the cells.  This will make pure honey during the flow. The other 3 seasons I feed them
the sugar cakes and patty subs. If you want to feed the syrup then mark the syrup frame with a small piece of duct tape on the top bar.  This way you know which one is the syrup frame to not mix in with the real honey.  Still I'm careful so will not feed them syrup when the flow is on.  I also found out that they don't need syrup once the hives are on the high protein patty subs and sugar cakes.   So no syrup is store in the hives!

??? So you don't think the bees store the sugar???

[beepro]

I have never seen my bees store the loose sugar in their cells.  Because we are still in a
dearth now there is nothing for them to store while trying to raise their winter bees.  I have
very little nectar store in the hives at the moment.  Whatever natural nectar they can collect they will use to
feed the broods.   

So yes, they are not storing any sugar in the cells!   They barely have enough for the broods.  For the last 2 seasons I've
been running minimal stores to over winter all of my hives.  Don't worry though the strong hives still sending foragers out since
our eucalyptus and loquat trees are blooming now.