What's this?

[JVarner]

At first glance I thought "virgin queen"...doubting that now...



The thorax is bald like a queen but the abdomen is stumpy...what do I have here?        My bees are mutts from central PA.

(...my first picture post - hopefully it comes through)

[TheHoneyPump]

That is a sick bee, a viral infected bee. Hairless bee is usually associated with chronic bee paralysis virus or acute bee paralysis virus. Suggest you do some google research on CBPV / ABPV and formulate your treatment plan.

Whatever you come up with for a plan will be from a wholesome health perspective as there is no treatment specifically for this virus. There are certainly manipulations that help though.
For example:  I see a few such bees I simply pick them off, pinch, and toss aside so they are gone away from the hive to prevent spreading. Once touching them, it is important to immediately wipe finger tips and tools with a disinfectant wipe (which you always have kept in your pocket, right) so the beekeeper does not become a source of the spread to other bees or to another hive. If there are a lot of hairless bees seen, I may decide to do a high shake out 10 yards away and let the good bees fly back. Some very young nurse bees will be lost in a shake out so consider all factors.

Since varroa is a strong vector of all viral spread, seeing such bees should also trigger a need for sampling of bees for mite load. The mite does not cause this one, but the mite does help spread it. Controlling the mite levels controls all virus. Appropriate mite treatment to use is based on the results of the sample and ambient conditions.

PS:  not many of these bees are seen over the summer time.  They tend to be seen in the spring after the bees have been stuck inside for winter, or the late fall just before drifting into winter.  Basically when bees are confined the virus spreads.  When bees are active and outside a lot the virus recedes.

Thanks for asking!    Hope that helps!

[beepro]

Some worker bees are just jet black from the local carnis genetic.  As long as there are not that many of
them then I would not be a concern.  The worker has a short lifespan anyway.   Just keep an eye on this
hive for now.  It is too late in the season to make a new queen unless other issue arrives.

[TheHoneyPump]

Some worker bees are just jet black from the local carnis genetic.  As long as there are not that many of
them then I would not be a concern.  The worker has a short lifespan anyway.   Just keep an eye on this
hive for now.  It is too late in the season to make a new queen unless other issue arrives.

Nope, not that one.

[Ben Framed]

Some worker bees are just jet black from the local carnis genetic.  As long as there are not that many of
them then I would not be a concern.  The worker has a short lifespan anyway.   Just keep an eye on this
hive for now.  It is too late in the season to make a new queen unless other issue arrives.

Nope

Thanks for the good information Mr HoneyPump. This is the first I've seen or heard of this... Much appreciated!

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Both are correct, HP has a good description, very detailed I might add of a virion {single virus} infected bee,  but did not mention the greasy or waxy finish that is usually associated.

There is a genetic mutant, hairless, glossy as pictured that I see in my hives yearly.  Now there is a big difference in the two described bees.  The one described by HP that is sickly, tired, slow, waxy, should be eliminated, exactly as he said.  The healthy mutant is a forager but I don?t know know the specifications.  I am going by eyes on experience.  Not uncommon to see the black mutant in most of my hives.

I have seen both bees, the one described by HP is easy to recognize do to its sickly appearance.  I have tried to figure out the genetics of the healthy hairless black bee.  There is a knock out of the gene coding for hair and a gene that restricts color to black.

There is a similiar known genetics in horses called a point gene, well understood that restricts black hairs to mane tail lower and legs.  The horse can genetically coded for all black yet the black hairs are limited as described. So the body color is not black.  A similiar gene not yet identified could limit yellow in a bee resulting in all black while also deleting hair.  Could be a deletion of a single amino acid required for yellow.

I AM GUESSING, as I stated the genetics are not identified in the hairless black honey bee and as a retired bacteriologist specializing in genetic engineering this is my best guess.
Blessings

[TheHoneyPump]

I preferentially select for and breed the bees in my queen rearing operation. Often the queen and bees I select from are black. So in a sizeable portion my operation the bees are all black. Well almost all black in that they are black bees with dusty grey/black hair.

No healthy bee ever looks like the picture above. The bee in the picture presented above is not a black bee strain. It is a sick bee. It has no hair because it is pecked at by the other bees who know there is something wrong with it and spend extra time trying to clean and groom it, peeling its hair off. When next you are in a hive and spot a black hairless bee, just set back patiently watch and wait. You will soon see the other bees circling it and appear to groom it peck at it and harass it.

For example, here is a fresh queen from one of my mating nucs this summer.  The bee colors are a mixed hodgepodge because they were drawn from shakes and brood from various hives when I put all the nucs together.  Look closely in the picture.  Many of the bees on the right side of the picture are completely black bees. They do not appear black because their hair is dusty grey / charcoal.  If they were hairless they would look like the picture above. 

IMHO - If they are hairless, they are sick, and they get pinch+tossed from the hive if I see them.

[Ben Framed]

I preferentially select for and breed the bees in my queen rearing operation. Often the queen and bees I select from are black. So in a sizeable portion my operation the bees are all black. Well almost all black in that they are black bees with dusty grey/black hair.

No healthy bee ever looks like the picture above. The bee in the picture presented above is not a black bee strain. It is a sick bee. It has no hair because it is pecked at by the other bees who know there is something wrong with it and spend extra time trying to clean and groom it, peeling its hair off. When next you are in a hive and spot a black hairless bee, just set back patiently watch and wait. You will soon see the other bees circling it and appear to groom it peck at it and harass it.

For example, here is a fresh queen from one of my mating nucs this summer.  The bee colors are a mixed hodgepodge because they were drawn from shakes and brood from various hives when I put all the nucs together.  Look closely in the picture.  Many of the bees on the right side of the picture are completely black bees. They do not appear black because their hair is dusty grey / charcoal.  If they were hairless they would look like the picture above.  If they are hairless, they are sick.

Very interesting fellows, and very educational. Especially coming from two well educated men as yourselves. Mr Claude, The black tailed queen that you have pictured, looks like the one that I described to beepro in a topic a while back where I told him that I had observed the workers dragging out SHBeetles and "thought that all bees did this".    I acquired This hive from a cutout in a ladys home. These bees are very gentle and very hard workers. Thanks, Phillip     

[TheHoneyPump]

Just for fun.  Main breeder queen 1 of 3 in 2018, Theresa.  All black.

[Ben Framed]

Just for fun.  Main breeder queen 1 of 3 in 2018, Theresa.  All black.

Good Pictures, but I got tickled on Theresa! Ah haa haa haa,   Now what did Michale Palmer teach us about naming the queen? That part was funny!  Have you watched that video? Its a great one!
Thanks, Phillip Hall

[TheHoneyPump]

 
Can you guess the names of the other ones ?

[Ben Framed]

Ok Mr "HoneyPump. for fun Ill try!, Theresa?    ah haa haa haa
 

[JVarner]

Fascinating replies! I really appreciate the responses.

When I saw this one I tried to slip it into my queen cage to examine but it took flight immediately and I lost her. She seemed lively enough but due to the responses here I'll do some investigating and report back. Unfortunately, this was my last (intended) full inspection before closing up for winter. Perhaps if another warm day pops up I will have another close look.   

Should have added...this was a small late season split & tested nearly 0 for varroa

[Ben Framed]

Fascinating replies! I really appreciate the responses.

When I saw this one I tried to slip it into my queen cage to examine but it took flight immediately and I lost her. She seemed lively enough but due to the responses here I'll do some investigating and report back. Unfortunately, this was my last (intended) full inspection before closing up for winter. Perhaps if another warm day pops up I will have another close look.   

Should have added...this was a small late season split & tested nearly 0 for varroa

I had one fly off on me once,as I was introducing her , she had been in her cage with the new split for two days so I thought I would do her a favor and let her out.  Instead of going down into the hive , off she went! A big storm was coming and I thought she was a goner. After the storm I looked in the hive and to my amazement, there she was! She made her way back!!

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

HP{ It has no hair because it is pecked at by the other bees who know there is something wrong with it and spend extra time trying to clean and groom it, peeling its hair off.}

To Whom It May Concern: please do not make up and then present fictional information as if fact.  This confuses the folks on Beemaster that are sincerely looking to learn facts.  Bees do not gang up and pluck hairs off a sickly bees as if a bunch of chickens.  Bees will fight a sickly bee, chew the wings and feet and drive a bee out of a hive.
In the future it is ok to disagree but defend with stated facts, state or defend your reasoning or your logic or a person can simply state in their opinion as a beek.

I try to pass on facts, if I do not don?t know facts for sure I state so or admit to guessing, but I never make up stuff.  Fact: 79% of statistics on the web are made up on the spot but on 19% of the people realize this.

The black hairless bee is the topic.  Stated: ALL hairless black are sick, please defend your statement with facts.  I have several of these bees, I have seen those bees for years, nothing new.  They forage on flowers, they appeared fine to me.  I admit I do not know the specific genetics.  In population of honeybees they appear to have a double recessive trait, this is my best guess based on small numbers.

There appears to me a high probability for two types of black hairless bees, why cannot a person entertain this notion.  Apparently I am not believed, by at least one,  that is ok but please do not counter with fiction.

Ok, I have seen these threads go viral with disagreements and Jim, Sawdust has to get involved when names start flying.  So ANY beek please respond maturely.  This is not one of those take sides issues. 

This is an issue of presenting information regarding a hairless black bee verses fiction of the same to the members of Beemaster. 
Blessings

[TheHoneyPump]

Thanks Van,
I do not see any disagreement
I do not see any fiction
I do see well supported observations on both the viral bee and the mutant bee.
No sides are taken.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Bless you Mr. HoneyPump.

[BeeMaster2]

Van,
I had to step back and scratch my head also about black bees being sick. Like really. I also have lots of black bees in my hives especially in my observation hive. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.
Jim

[beepro]

From healthy hives, I have vids of bees harassing (cleaning?) another bee before but not a jet black bee.  Certainly it wasn't a hairless bee.  At least I don't assume it was a sick bee.  I still don't know completely what the bees are doing in the vids.  Are they cleaning or harassing the poor bee?  There are many variation of the hygienic behaviors.  In the bee world there are still many secrets/mystery that I do not yet understand.  I don't assume things until
it is tested and documented.  Running the many little bee experiment through out the 4 seasons will enable me to gain more knowledge about them.  I have yet to learn a lot from the bees!

[Ben Framed]

I have somehing that I would like to say. There are two people here in particularly, I have come to know as friends. I dont think either one has any intention here but to help the honeybee and the beekeeper.  I realy believe this. One is Mr. Van the other is Mr Claude "TheHoneyPump". One says the hairless bee in the picture is sickly, "IMHO - If they are hairless, they are sick, and they get pinch+tossed from the hive if I see them". But also says that ther are mutation bees.
The other friend says the bee in the picture is not sick but a says its a mutant.  One friend, in post #5 reveled He is a retired bacteriologist specializing in genetic engineering. The other friend, has reviled to me a few weeks ago that he comes from a background of 7 generations of commercial beekeeping focused on high honey yields and R&D.  Current family operations are roughly 9,000 colonies. And he is also a retired engineer. I am not going to take sides here as I have great respect for both. As a retired bacteriologic prospective as Mr Van and a nature lover he doesnt want to pinch a bee if it is simply a mutant and as a hobbist beekeeper I can and completely understand this.  At the same time, I can understand Mr Claudes "opinion" and he had stated,("IMHO - If they are hairless, they are sick, and they get pinch+tossed from the hive if I see them".) His familys livelihood is totally dependant of a the health and survival of the honey bee, unlike myself or Mr. van a hobbist. I can see how Mr Claude  would have this opinion. He may not want to take the slightest chance of any kind of disease taking hold and ravaging his familys livelihood. 
Now, both have told me personal things of their background and are good humble people, not looking for notarity or fame. But as I have stated, simply want to help the bee and the beekeeper.
I have mentioned to each at one time or another, as a new beekeeper, its can sometimes be diffucult to distinguish what information that is posted  on a forum is accurate and what is not. That would be true for any forum or any other discussion on any subjesct I feel sure. I feel that we all here are blessed to have each of these men.  Now, Mr Claude I hope you dont mind me telling of your backgroud but Dallasbeek did ask me directly in another post and I figured this was the right time.
Thank each of you for being here and God Bless each of you!!

Sincerely, Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"