University of Guelph , Canada: gentle bees/hygenic traits.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

University of Guelph stated gentleness of honey bees is a trait inherited from drones, further hygenic qualities are traits inherited from the queen.  I have not verified the accuracy of these statements, I am repeating what they claim.

So on their islands they are mating known hygenic queens with known drones that possess gentle traits in the offspring.

On the video, they did show a hand waving directly over a hive of bees, the bees did not react.  They also do not use smoke on these incredible gentle bees that are good honey producing and extremely low swarming tendencies.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NUpApdL49Rc&t=923s

Here is the YouTube video, about 10 minutes.

[Ben Framed]

University of Guelph stated gentleness of honey bees is a trait inherited from drones, further hygenic qualities are traits inherited from the queen.  I have not verified the accuracy of these statements, I am repeating what they claim.

So on their islands they are mating known hygenic queens with known drones that possess gentle traits in the offspring.

On the video, they did show a hand waving directly over a hive of bees, the bees did not react.  They also do not use smoke on these incredible gentle bees that are good honey producing and extremely low swarming tendencies.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NUpApdL49Rc&t=923s

Here is the YouTube video, about 10 minutes.

Mr van, Good information here. I saw this video or one like it a few weeks ago when you was telling me about Bro Adam, I started my study of him and his work.  Now since then, I have either read or viewed two more sources stating the same thing about the drone being the bee that determines the temperament. I, like you, can't verify this to be fact but these people appear the be on top of things on this Island. That being the case, may explain how the africanized bee was able to spread so quickly all the way form South America as they have? As each hive produces many more drones than queens? This in mind is why I was giving our cousins over in Australia a heads up when the ship from Texas was found to have a hive with mites; The topic was under the heading ( Down Under Beekeeping ), Topic was (Varroa mite detected at Port of Melbourne). I warned the folks there to not only be concerned about the varroa mite, but that maybe they should also be  on the lookout for he africanized bee.  Being of course, if this is indeed true about the drones? 

[Dallasbeek]

I suppose the question is how long do drones survuve.  Since they don't work, I guess they last longer then field worker bees.

[Ben Framed]

I suppose the question is how long do drones survuve.  Since they don't work, I guess they last longer then field worker bees.

Sounds logical to me and stands to reason. Your question is a good question. Maybe Van or someone who knows will be able to answer that?

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Drones live all spring and summer, until the Fall eviction, unless they mate inwhich they immediately die.  Drones are fickle and will not live long caged, they require constant attention from the nurse bees.

Ben, you mentioned africian bees, I will relay some important studies.

Africian queens mate almost exclusively with africian drones whereas Itialian queens have no preference and mate randomly with africian or itialians drones.  So breeding favors the africian traits.  Remember the drones carry the aggressive trait.

Africian drones fly further and longer than non African drones.  Again, breeding favors africians.

Africian drones breed faster, don?t know what to think of this or how this was determined, but this is the data.

[Dallasbeek]

So africanized bees could not survive a long sea voyage unless there were nurse bees to keep them alive.  Nurse bees would develop into foragers on the voyage, right?  There'd have to be a complete colony on the voyage, I suspect.  I'll not chance any further assumptions.  Just speculating about earlier posts.

[Ben Framed]

Drones live all spring and summer, until the Fall eviction, unless they mate inwhich they immediately die.  Drones are fickle and will not live long caged, they require constant attention from the nurse bees.

Ben, you mentioned africian bees, I will relay some important studies.

Africian queens mate almost exclusively with africian drones whereas Itialian queens have no preference and mate randomly with africian or itialians drones.  So breeding favors the africian traits.  Remember the drones carry the aggressive trait.

Africian drones fly further and longer than non African drones.  Again, breeding favors africians.

Africian drones breed faster, don?t know what to think of this or how this was determined, but this is the data.

Thanks Van, exactly. That is why I tried to give the fellows down under a heads up about the ship which had the "sto-away hive" that reached Melbourne. The official report stated that the bees on this ship were found to have the varroa mite and that seemed to be main concern mentioned in the report written by Nigal, (can't remember his last name). I kindly told the guys that if I were an Australian that I would also be concerned that the bees might be of the Africanized variety found in certain parts of Texas. And the ship according to the report, had indeed came from Texas. Jim , on the next reply told our cousins from down under that they should also be concerned about Raspberry Crazy Ants. So there we are. Thank you for your reply Mr Van, I always appreciate you.
Phillip

[Ben Framed]

So africanized bees could not survive a long sea voyage unless there were nurse bees to keep them alive.  Nurse bees would develop into foragers on the voyage, right?  There'd have to be a complete colony on the voyage, I suspect.  I'll not chance any further assumptions.  Just speculating about earlier posts.

Good points Dallasbeek: Honestly I can't remember all details of the report but "IF" they did indeed have drones then there is a pretty good chance the hive had brood as well? And of course that would probably mean a complete hive. And I assume the brood will hatch on the open sea thus creating more nurse bees on the way.   I am just guessing and I don't know.  The point that Mr Van is making, is that the aggressive behavior in bees is passed on through the drone and not the queen according to research? Is this correct Mr Van? This is the way that I understand it. Thank you Mr Dallasbeek you are always appreciated sir!

Sincerely, Phillip Hall

[Ben Framed]

One more thing Mr Van, there is a fellow from Guatemala that makes YouTube videos.  This man is really sharp and has good ideas that I can use in my program. Only problem is communication. He is  always very willing and  eager to be helpful and answer any of my questions. Translation is sometimes difficult. I have never seen him wearing gloves, never a full suit, and usually just a veil. I have ask him why is his bees so gently when he is in the heart of killer bee country. I will try again but I don't have a clear understanding of his answer.  The point is, if his bees are that gentle, as gentle as any I've seen on any movie, film, or documentary, then their has to be hope for us here with the invaders...   any thoughts?

Thanks, Phillip

[Troutdog]

Paul Kelly at U of G is a pretty smart cookie but the real gem is there full time geneticist.
This is the product of over 40 yrs of selective breeding in isolation locally adaptive bees and management in Ontario is the same everywhere.
Really a model situation.
 I like Brook too!!!!!

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[Van, Arkansas, USA]

So africanized bees could not survive a long sea voyage unless there were nurse bees to keep them alive.  Nurse bees would develop into foragers on the voyage, right?  There'd have to be a complete colony on the voyage, I suspect.  I'll not chance any further assumptions.  Just speculating about earlier posts.

Dallas you bring up some interesting ideas about nurse bees and foragers:

I just studied this week some interesting facts pertaining to nurse bees and guard bees.  Guard bees can extend the longevity of nurse bees with pheromones.  Normally nurse bees remain nurses {in hive} about 2 weeks, data from many sources confirm this.  However data was learned that a particular pheromone can extend this nurse bee role for additional 2 weeks, maybe more, if needed and the pheromone was emitted by the guard or the forager bees.

Just for clarification: nurse bees are the bees that remain in hive.  They may be sanitation, pollen workers, wax producers or what ever role.  Nurse bees are the honey bees that have not conducted an orenitation flight and can have several roles.  So I use the term NURSE bee rather loosely.
Blessings

[Dallasbeek]

Van, I wonder how this idea of peromones fits with the research cited by Randy Oliver in a series of articles in 2007 pertaining to vitellogenin.  To find these articles go to Scientific Beekeeping website (scientificbeekeeping.com) and look at articles listed by dates, move down to 2007 and check out Fat Bees parts 1 through 4.  Very lengthy and thorough discussion of vitellogenin and how it keeps bees from aging, including aging out of the nurse bee phase.

My purely unscientific, seat-of-the-pants interpretation with absolutely no basis in fact is that if pheromones emitted by forager bees have any effect whatsoever on the longevity of nurse bees remaining nurse bees, it might be to cause the nurse bees to delay passing their vitellogenin to other, younger bees or otherwise dissipating this fat in order to enter the forager bee phase.  As I understand it, (and anyone should read the articles to get the straight scoop on this) the retention of viellogenin is what allows bees to live through the winter. 

I've also read that if there's a shortage of nurse bees to care for brood, forager bees will take over the role of nurse bees until a sufficient number of brood hatch and assume that position.  My question then is whether they acquire vitellogenin necessary to fulfill the nurse bee role.