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Author Topic: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive  (Read 3854 times)

Offline Duane

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"Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« on: July 15, 2018, 07:20:52 pm »
I have noticed more than once a sound, kind of like rumbling, or maybe like how I remember pigeons sometimes sound in their nests, coming from the box.  I have listened to sounds of queens piping, and this is much lower.  I went through the box and didn't find any mice, birds, or what not.  Never the sound on the frame I'm holding.  Has anyone else heard anything like this?  I had suspected this box being queenless, but did see eggs on the bottom of the cells.  Some had more than one egg.  But there was capped worker brood.  Not that that would relate to the sound.

Offline iddee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2018, 08:47:45 pm »
Can you post a pic of the capped brood? If it is flat, all is well. If it is rounded like the end of bullets, you may still be queenless.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline paus

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2018, 11:24:40 pm »
More than one egg per cell may be laying worker or workers.

Offline VermontHoneyBee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2018, 11:25:41 pm »
?.Some had more than one egg.  But there was capped worker brood.  Not that that would relate to the sound.

That kind of tells me that you may have a laying worker.  A laying worker will lay more than one egg per cell, some times, but the most important thing is that they lay only drones.  Do you see young/nurse bees?.  Look for significantly raised cells as opposed cells that are just barely raised.  If you don't see young bees and many drones that may tell you that you are queenless.

If you are queenless and have a laying worker, adding a new queen is more complicated.  You will need to kill the laying worker first.  One way I found, with my queenless hive, is that I emptied the entire hive of all frames and shook the frames about 100 feet from the hive to the ground.  The goal here is to shake the laying worker off the frames.  The laying worker has never been outside of the hive so she will not find her way to the hive.  All of the other bees will find their way back.  Of course, if you are not queenless you may be shaking the queen and if you just became queenless you may lose some nurse bees.  The fact that you are saying that there is more than one egg per cell tells me that you have a laying worker.  Good luck

Offline iddee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 07:11:41 am »
vhb, there's a lot of incorrect info there.

Many times a new queen will lay 2 or 3 eggs per cell for a few days. With laying workers, there can be many eggs per cell.

There is not just 1 laying worker There are hundreds in a laying worker hive.

Shaking out a hundred feet away will result in losing all bees less than about 2 weeks old. Only the foragers will know the way back home.

If there are still plenty of worker bees in the hive, the best way to requeen is with one of these....  https://beezneedz.com/product/qrs-queen-intro/
Scratch most of the drone brood and install the new queen for a week or two, until you no longer see eggs. Then it is safe to release her.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 07:48:36 am »
Quote from VHB,
  I had suspected this box being queenless, but did see eggs on the bottom of the cells. Some had more than one egg.
This quote says you have a new queen. Leave her bee for another 10 days and then inspect her again. I suspect you will like the results.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline iddee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 08:07:09 am »
Jim, change the quote and delete this reply. It is Duane, not VHB, that has the hive and made the quote.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Acebird

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 08:50:47 am »
It is so much easier to use the <quote> function of the forum.  When a thread gets multiple pages long the <quote> function gives the reader a way to find the original text.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 09:54:49 am »
Oops. Good catch Wally.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline Duane

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 10:27:56 am »
Quote
  I had suspected this box being queenless, but did see eggs on the bottom of the cells. Some had more than one egg.
This quote says you have a new queen. Leave her bee for another 10 days and then inspect her again. I suspect you will like the results.
Jim
Yes, that's what I was thinking/hoping, (but not lose my queen!)  A little over a week ago, I had seen multiple eggs on the sides of the cells.  Now mostly one egg, but several 2's, a few 3's on the bottoms of the cells.  The capped brood is not drones, but workers.  It could be leftover from before.  And this is the hive where I noticed some time ago they were attacking the drones, actually acting like they were stinging them, which I thought was unusual for that time of year.  There were a lot of bees on the outside, but now not so many.  The temperature changed when I first noticed less, so don't know.  Still a lot of bees.  Don't want to lose my bees, especially since I was thinking of taking some to another location that had less, but the queen raised mean bees, so maybe glad she is gone.

But my question involves the sound I'm hearing.  Queenless or not, do bees make a rumbling type of sound?

Offline Duane

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 10:30:44 am »
If there are still plenty of worker bees in the hive, the best way to requeen is with one of these....  https://beezneedz.com/product/qrs-queen-intro/
Scratch most of the drone brood and install the new queen for a week or two, until you no longer see eggs. Then it is safe to release her.
Is this for after shaking out the laying workers or even in spite of them?  And could this work on a hive I just want to requeen by removing the old, sticking the new queen in this frame and that's it?

Offline iddee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 01:24:34 pm »
It works without shaking them out. The pheremones of the new queen reverses the laying workers after a week or two.
Yes, it can be used for any queen introduction.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 01:45:07 pm »
Duane seems to be fixated on shaking off, Wally.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline iddee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2018, 03:22:09 pm »
If there are few bees left, I recommend shaking and putting the equip. away. If there are numerous bees, I recommend an extended queen introduction.

In Duane's situation, I recommend as Jim says,  wait 10 days and look again.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Duane

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2018, 06:39:50 pm »
What's the theory behind "10" days?  Or does that just mean, wait awhile?

With the queen in the caged up a week or two, does that harm her, is the screen large enough for other bees to go through, do they feed her?

Offline iddee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2018, 08:16:33 pm »
Eggs will be capped pupae in 10 days. You can tell if they are worker or drone.
I have left queens caged for 30 days with no harm done.
The bees will feed her through the screen, but cannot get in to do her harm.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline VermontHoneyBee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2018, 10:11:30 pm »
vhb, there's a lot of incorrect info there.

Many times a new queen will lay 2 or 3 eggs per cell for a few days. With laying workers, there can be many eggs per cell.

There is not just 1 laying worker There are hundreds in a laying worker hive.

Shaking out a hundred feet away will result in losing all bees less than about 2 weeks old. Only the foragers will know the way back home.

If there are still plenty of worker bees in the hive, the best way to requeen is with one of these....  https://beezneedz.com/product/qrs-queen-intro/
Scratch most of the drone brood and install the new queen for a week or two, until you no longer see eggs. Then it is safe to release her.

I stand corrected on the one versus many laying workers.  However, if you have laying workers, all of them will lay drones.  If you shake 100 feet away and the young drones don't make it, no harm done.  The recommendation to shake 100 feet away is what a commercial beekeeper in my area recommended and it worked for me.  Very few bees did not find the hive for me and the queen was accepted within 4 days after being in a push in cage

Also, would a queen that lays more than one egg in a cell be a good queen?. 

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2018, 12:05:38 am »
New queens usually lay 2 or 3 eggs in some cells. Within a week or 2 they usually figure it out and only lay one per cell.  Normal egg laying procedure is th inspect each cell and only lay an egg in the ones the bees have prepped and have no eggs. It does not take long for them to check carefully before laying an egg.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline VermontHoneyBee

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2018, 10:12:19 am »
New queens usually lay 2 or 3 eggs in some cells. Within a week or 2 they usually figure it out and only lay one per cell.  Normal egg laying procedure is th inspect each cell and only lay an egg in the ones the bees have prepped and have no eggs. It does not take long for them to check carefully before laying an egg.
Jim

Thank you.  It amazes me how many different variations of things you find.  I have only read that laying workers are the ones that lay more than one egg.  Thanks

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: "Rumbling" sound coming from hive
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2018, 11:23:24 am »
VHB,
No problem.
If possible, build or buy a 3 or 4 frame observation hive. You can learn a lot, you get to see it first hand.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin