Combining queenless hives, input please.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

I have read that a person can combine QUEENLESS hives IF all bees are placed into a new hive, in a new location.

I decided to try this today and so far everyone is calm.

In detail:  I have a 5 frame nuc 80% capacity and two each two frames from a queen castle that are all queenless.  Each had a virgin queen however the virgin queen never returned from the mating flight.  These are the left overs in which the queen{s}was lost from my queen rearing operation.  I have many successful mated queens in nucs, but there is always a few queens that never return from mating flights due to cat birds, dragon flies and such.

So in summation I have 9 {5+2+2} frames of bees from 3 different sources and no queens.  So I combined all nine frames of bees in a 10 frame Lang brood box, which is in a new location, 20 ft from original location and added a frame of egg, larva.  There was no fighting, and the bees are very calm, I just checked.  I was surprised how calm the bees were,,, as if nothing new happened.

In brief:  Normally when I combine hives, one hive is queenrite and the other hive is queenless and I place newspaper in between the hives known as a newspaper combine.

So what I studied did prove to be correct:  that is frames of bees can be directly combined if all hives are queenless and all bees are placed in a new hive body, new location.

Hopefully the new hive will produce queen cells with the eggs and larva I gave them.  If not, I have another batch of queens due to hatch 6/9/18.

I would appreciate feedback, your experience, on direct combining frames of bees from queenless hives, as I described above.

[Michael Bush]

I end up doing it all the time.  I have mating nucs going from May to October and they often end up queenless.  Usually, though, I just add cells, but they often dwindle down and that doesn't work anymore so you combine them by just putting them together...

[djgriggs]

I am interested in this subject as I have 2 / 3 hives that either have came from splits or dividing a hive due to no queen,, Now mind you all splits and the divided Hive does have Queen Cells., I can only hope that after hatching that they make it back from there mating flight. 

At this time I am seeing no activity outside the 2 splits and 1 of the divided hives. .. Is This due to not having queens / queens not hatched  or not mated. ?

At this time I am wondering if I might need to merge some of the splits. I know I am a little anxious for this process so maybe I just need to wait it out.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Brother Bush, confirmation, just what I wanted,  thank you.  So far, I checked this morning, a day later, and all is fine, bees are calm.
Blessings

[Michael Bush]

The success of combining just a few frames from two colonies is high because neither is strong and there's not a lot of "them or us" attitude.  If you have to moderately strong hives, you need to do something more gradual like a newspaper combine.  But a few frames from two small nucs works fine and three works even better.  A few frames into a strong hive works fine if those frames are brood.

[cao]

At this time I am seeing no activity outside the 2 splits and 1 of the divided hives. .. Is This due to not having queens / queens not hatched  or not mated. ?

Recent splits typically don't have the foragers of a regular hive so they aren't many flying outside the hive.  Give your splits timee for the queen cells to hatch and for her to do her thing.  After that time is up is when you might consider a combine.

[djgriggs]

At this time I am seeing no activity outside the 2 splits and 1 of the divided hives. .. Is This due to not having queens / queens not hatched  or not mated. ?

Recent splits typically don't have the foragers of a regular hive so they aren't many flying outside the hive.  Give your splits timee for the queen cells to hatch and for her to do her thing.  After that time is up is when you might consider a combine.

I suspected as much but at this time I read a lot but still know very little :) I like to hear from others that know more. ( Learn as you go )

thank you

DJ

[eltalia]

Van,
Queenless, particularly when in that state for some time, is never a problem
in combining. The situation can improve rapidly by introduction of a caged queen
within an hour or so.
Queenless colonies are only focused on Survival, and so are wholly occipied in
foraging for nectar, building honey stores. I believe many of the bees hotswap into
roles around foraging on becoming queenless with an ability even weeks later to
hotswap into domestic duties around raising brood.

Bill

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Yes Sir, Bill ol Buddy.  I have wondered about that HOTSWAP: changing roles as needed from forager to nurse then back to forager.  I am at a loss if a forager hotswap to a nurse bee can reactivate the glands under the jaw (mandible) to produce royal jelly after 3-5 weeks of age.  You know, or anybody know???
Blessings

[eltalia]

Yes Sir, Bill ol Buddy.  I have wondered about that HOTSWAP: changing roles as needed from forager to nurse then back to forager.  I am at a loss if a forager hotswap to a nurse bee can reactivate the glands under the jaw (mandible) to produce royal jelly after 3-5 weeks of age.  You know, or anybody know???
Blessings

Given that under circumstance workers can 'live' to 100days plus some, the
"time to die" for gland secretion may vary considerably in likewise circumstance.
That said it is a gamble to rely on hotswap for (feeding) egg to larve morphing
after 4weeks of bee age, which may equate to several weeks queenless. Or at least
so in what I have come across as specific situation.

Bill

[beepro]

Most bees 3-5 weeks of age are too old to convert back, however, they will do their best to maintain the next generation.   One concern I have is how long are they queen less after the first round of failed virgin.  After one month the chance of developing the LWs will increase.  So by the time they make the new QCs (2nd round) there isn't enough time to make a new mated queen.  Once they are there, LWs hive will kill the virgin queen when she emerged from the QC.  This is my experience so far.

You either start fresh with new bees or you put a QC in there if still enough time to do so in this queen less hive.  Or better yet put a mated queen in there.  With a mated queen you can buy more time delaying the LWs.  Is is very flexible in this area of what to do next.  I would give them a mated queen if I have one.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Beepro, Agreed with what you say!!  I have queen cells due to hatch 6/9, so only a few more days.  LW oh don?t mention that word.
Blessings

[beepro]

If your timing is right you can even drop the virgin directly into these queen less hives.   The
bees don't care about newly emerged virgins.