Complete, Now need All Advice

[djgriggs]

Today I built my bee stand, put it in place, put the two Hives in place and leveled as much as possible.. See attachments. Currently the Hive entrance faces the north and the back toward ( you'll never guess ) okay the south. . I tried to face hive entrance toward the East , however there was no way that I could even come close to being level.. ..

At This time The hives are facing North and South and as level as possible. Now just waiting for the bees... A little concerned as it is still a little cold for this time in April....

[Acebird]

Maybe not a problem in Alabama but if they were mine I would have the entrance facing south rather than north.  The importance of level is only relative.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mr. Griggs, that is beautiful, a fine job, beautiful hives, beautiful stands.  Again, if possible entrance facing to the south.  I tilt my hives forward so rain will runout of the entrance.

Nice looking, is that cedar?  I noticed you have strapped the hives, good thinking,,that is what I do. You are gonna hive some happy bees.
Best of luck to your bees.
Blessings

[moebees]

Today I built my bee stand, put it in place, put the two Hives in place and leveled as much as possible.. See attachments. Currently the Hive entrance faces the north and the back toward ( you'll never guess ) okay the south. . I tried to face hive entrance toward the East , however there was no way that I could even come close to being level.. ..

At This time The hives are facing North and South and as level as possible. Now just waiting for the bees... A little concerned as it is still a little cold for this time in April....

Doesn't matter what direction the entrance faces. I don't understand why you can't level them facing east?  Just shim them.

[djgriggs]

these two hives are Cypress, Also coated with Tung Oil.. I tried to flip them to face east however the slab that you see underneath the hives was not done so well.. ( no , no I am not a concrete expert    , I will however attempt again later on a nice day before the bees arrive it will be a lot easier to work with the hives if I can get them rotated. . The reason that They are currently facing North is due to the workshop is directly behind about 9 feet and I did not want to hinder the flight path in any way.. I am going to attempt to face the entry East again when I have the time to work with the levelness of the stand.. I worked with it for an hour earlier and just could not get it to be level or sturdy enough that I would feel comfortable.

[bwallace23350]

Looks great. I am also in Alabama and hope you enjoy your bees.

[djgriggs]

I am also in Alabama and hope you enjoy your bees.

where are you located in Alabama ?

[iddee]

In 40 plus years of beekeeping, I have never used a level on a hive. Guess at level from side to side, allow the front to dip enough to keep rain from running into the hive.  CLOSE ENOUGH

Now face it east, south, or in between.

[Acebird]

A golf ball on the lid should run off to the entrance.  Good enough.

[djgriggs]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I will have to try the golf ball,, makes sense,, currently do not see it rolling but should fix that.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Moe{Doesn't matter what direction the entrance faces. I don't understand why you can't level them facing east?}

Moe, I don?t not speak of south facing entrance on intuition nor a gut feeling, rather my statement is based from ?Honeybee Democracy? by Seeley and ?Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey? by Brother Adam with bonafide research by Seeley, and 90 years of observation by Brother Adam.

Seeley did years of study on an island to answer 3 questions, hive body size, entrance direction, entrance size.  The conslusions are South facing, 2 1/2 inches square opening and basically a 10 frame std. Lang hive body for hive body size.
Blessings

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Ace, now that is simple and just plain easy, a golf ball test!!!  Yes Sir, does not get easier than that.  Well said.
Blessings

[moebees]

Moe{Doesn't matter what direction the entrance faces. I don't understand why you can't level them facing east?}

Moe, I don?t not speak of south facing entrance on intuition nor a gut feeling, rather my statement is based from ?Honeybee Democracy? by Seeley and ?Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey? by Brother Adam with bonafide research by Seeley, and 90 years of observation by Brother Adam.

Seeley did years of study on an island to answer 3 questions, hive body size, entrance direction, entrance size.  The conslusions are South facing, 2 1/2 inches square opening and basically a 10 frame std. Lang hive body for hive body size.
Blessings

I respect Seeleys work immensely but no one is perfect.  He blew it on his cell size study.  If you do cut outs you will find entrances of all sizes, locations, and directions.  That study is used as the guide for the ideal swarm trap size, height, and volume.  But people are successful with all shapes and sizes of traps.  My point is that if you want/need for some reason to have your hives facing west or north, don't sweat it.  The bees aren't going to leave or die because of the direction the entrance.  My hives face all directions and it makes no difference.

[Acebird]

The bees aren't going to leave or die because of the direction the entrance.

It is not about dying it is about having more daylight hours shine in the entrance which tends to yield more honey.

[moebees]

The bees aren't going to leave or die because of the direction the entrance.

It is not about dying it is about having more daylight hours shine in the entrance which tends to yield more honey.

Ok. Gotch ya. I stand corrected.  I better run out and rotate all my hives.

[djgriggs]

Okay , two things

Rotation of Hives ,,
            Currently I have two hives one with foundation and one without,, Both Hives currently face north... As my workshop is directly south at about 9 feet..
            I am currently way out of level stand and all if I rotate to Entry facing East as I cannot face West as Privacy fence is 6' away.

Ball

At what degree of an angle should I tilt the hives if any,, how do I know enough is enough??

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Moe{But people are successful with all shapes and sizes of traps.  My point is that if you want/need for some reason to have your hives facing west or north, don't sweat it.}

Agreed 100%

Moe, would you please provide some specifics on: Seeley and cell size ?blew it?

I ask because I am aware of two different studies by Seeley and cell size and I am not sure which one you are referring to.  One was small cell size does not control Varroa, the second was cell size of feral bees close to NY (I think) in which he determined to be 5.3 mm (which seems large to me for a feral hive.). Maybe you even refer to a study I am not familiar, so I seek knowledge here.  Thanks
Blessings

[Acebird]

At what degree of an angle should I tilt the hives if any,, how do I know enough is enough??

.6

[Acebird]

I am currently way out of level stand and all if I rotate to Entry facing East

Is your stand going to sit on a concrete slab?
Normally a stand is anchored into the ground if it is up that high.  It is surprising how much a sail two hives can be in a heavy wind.  Do not let your hive get to high if you are not going to anchor it.  Two hive can easily sit on a total of (4) 4x4's tied together with to rails.  Actually 5-6 hives could sit on 4 or them.  From the photo it appears to me that you incorporated the bottom boards as part of the hive stand.  That will make moving the hives tough if the need should arise.  Normally you would have the bottom board sitting on the two rails.  When you build your stand you build it so the rails are level then you use two wedges on the back of the hive to get it to tip forward and prevent any rocking.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mr. Griggs the purpose of tilting the hives forward is for water run off, so water, rain, will not stand in the back of a hive with solid bottom board.

So tilt enough that water will run out the entrance and not into the hive.  Starting with a level hive, then raise the back of the hive one half an inch, 1/2 inch should do it.

Again, those are beautiful hives, stand, slab and type of wood, just beautiful.  Makes my plain Jane hives look average, not exactly a high end neighborhood at my apiary but very functional here.
Blessings

[djgriggs]

I am currently way out of level stand and all if I rotate to Entry facing East

Is your stand going to sit on a concrete slab?
Normally a stand is anchored into the ground if it is up that high.  It is surprising how much a sail two hives can be in a heavy wind.  Do not let your hive get to high if you are not going to anchor it.  Two hive can easily sit on a total of (4) 4x4's tied together with to rails.  Actually 5-6 hives could sit on 4 or them.  From the photo it appears to me that you incorporated the bottom boards as part of the hive stand.  That will make moving the hives tough if the need should arise.  Normally you would have the bottom board sitting on the two rails.  When you build your stand you build it so the rails are level then you use two wedges on the back of the hive to get it to tip forward and prevent any rocking.

When I built the hive stand I did incorporate the bottom boards but only to the extent to where they slide into place. They can only slide in to the two locations where you see the hives. I can also lift the brood boxes off and lift out the bottom boards.  From my understanding a small wedges underneath the back. Instead of the bottom boards setting on rails the bottom boards slide into place with a peace of wood on each side to hold them into place.. keep them from sliding or moving . If anyone has any advice on a better stand I am all ears. This was my first stand build.

On tilting the hives, Do I still need to tilt the boxes forward even though both of my bottom boards are screened and not solid ?

Thank you as usual I have been learning a lot on here

[eltalia]

@moebees
"Ok. Gotch ya. I stand corrected.  I better run out and rotate all my hives."

..not so much "stand corrected"as stand absortion of concepts which
may run against what works for you?

@djgriggs like most keen newbies is overthinking the "must do" in
adaption to what can be done with what is the actual case.
Compounding that decision making process (difficulty?) is the obvious
pride in fine workmanship.
I can understand the need... being one who's need is to throw them
down and get them working, whatever.
Yet before I open up a relocation I make sure they are facing as near
magnetic North - and tilted towards the entrance - as best as is able
to be achieved. The next element in priority is to have the entrance
90degrees to prevailing weather. The last is to make sure they are
stable and no weeds close by for vermin to launch themselves off.
All those satisfied, or as near as I can get to optimum, job is done.

My nym avatar indicates why my structures face North :-))

[edit]
@djgriggs
now reading screened bottom boards are in place, I advise;
Lose the screened bottom board argument/advice of suppliers.
SBB are a specialist tool for specific circumstance and should not
be used carte blanche.
In the years ahead you will prove solid bottom boards way
more acceptable to bees and for you in colony management.

Bill

[Acebird]

In the years ahead you will prove solid bottom boards way
more acceptable to bees and for you in colony management.

Bill you are on a campaign that isn't working.  The internet is global.  You can't possible know what is right for every location even though you might think so.
What you do not grasp is "management" is a human thing.  It is not a bee thing.  Bees respond to the human thing.  Not the other way around.  Bees are insects not unlike ants.  Bees make honey that is why we like them.  Ants, we cover them with chocolate and find a way to like them too.  Bees are simple, humans are complicated.

[BeeMaster2]

?Bees are simple, humans are complicated.?
Ace, I beg to differ. If bees were simple, it would not have taken us well more than a hundred years to decider what we have to date and that is only a small part of what there is to learn about the little bee.
 
Jim

[Acebird]

Jim, we have a hard time dealing with simple things.

[eltalia]

Jim, we have a hard time dealing with simple things.

Indeed true... for those who unceremoniously kill bees year in year
out following their "simple" mantras ;->

Management _is_ a "bee thing", until many new b'keep grasps that,
and practised b'keeps grab the nettle of their own creation - believing
rote practices are to be followed in accordance with the awe/reverance
they hold the initiator  :sadface: - until then Internet  forums will thrive
and bees die. Period.

Bill

[djgriggs]

okay,

The only option I have is to face the hive entrance North or West currently facing North. When I have a moment this weekend I will working on rotating to the West if absolute..

[iddee]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a building 9 feet to the south and a privacy fence to the west spells SHB heaven. I doubt you will keep bees alive in that location.

[BeeMaster2]

Iddee,
I kept my bees almost up under the drip line of the south side of my barn for 7 years. Worse yet, they were in almost total shade.  Yes, I killed thousands of SHB?s with my oil trays but for the most part they did real well.
If you look at my avatar, you will see my barn right behind me. I did not have a good location for my bees due to all of the trees and a neighbor on the other side from this location that hated bees.
Since he has to face the hives North, the building will act as a wind break.
Jim

[iddee]

""Yes, I killed thousands of SHB?s""

Now add the fact he is getting his first bees, a complete newbee,  and what do you come up with?

[eltalia]

""Yes, I killed thousands of SHB?s""

Now add the fact he is getting his first bees, a complete newbee,  and what do you come up with?

Weeeell, to add salve to that..?.. if you breed SHB you have a responsiblity to kill
to kill off your stock. IF the b'keep does not mind owning that workload then it
is no different a practice to managing TF through drone rearing as some
notable persons advocate for VD 'control', yeh?

New players are by nature going to be exposed to pretty much most versions
of P&D nonstrategys if they do their homework.

Bill

Bill

[djgriggs]

""Yes, I killed thousands of SHB?s""

Now add the fact he is getting his first bees, a complete newbee,  and what do you come up with?

Weeeell, to add salve to that..?.. if you breed SHB you have a responsiblity to kill
to kill off your stock. IF the b'keep does not mind owning that workload then it
is no different a practice to managing TF through drone rearing as some
notable persons advocate for VD 'control', yeh?

Yes I am currently limited to where my bees are located and yes I am a noob @ beekeeping , However I do have at least two things going for me.
1. Bees are out in the open and there are not issues with shade or wind ( not for sure if no shade is a good or bad thing, as I may have to rethink this if ever the weather decides to warm up ).
2. I have everyone here to help lead me in the right direction. Along the way I have met and spoke with many beekeepers all seem willing to give advice when asked. Which I must say is very helpful . It
    is one thing to read but I have always done better with on hand knowledge. ..

Do not get me wrong I am not saying that I will not experience the SHB or anything else but I am saying that I think I can manage what comes my way especially with the knowledge and experience of those around me... :) ( sorry not trying to come over as cocky ) Just hoping for the best....

New players are by nature going to be exposed to pretty much most versions
of P&D nonstrategys if they do their homework.

Bill

Bill

[eltalia]

"It is one thing to read but I have always done better with on hand knowledge"

Such is known as "experience", and where results from testing teachings are filed as true knowledge. There is why no one person is capable of having all the answers but -  as in many a discipline - for any quiz there can be no quiz when the answers are known.
Example being where the quiz question of "site location" for a managed colony arises the "true knowledge" answer is "in full sun, entrance facing the acending azimith". However such a fixed application may not be possible so compromise is made. Experience then may teach which varient is best in that situation and so we read forks of the set 'rule'.
That "true knowedge" is then owned by that experience.
The danger then is in quoting that knowledge as an answer to a quiz.
The answer is flawed as the experience held mitigating factors, hazards
well able to be managed at a local level yet not aired in the answer.

Your work @djgriggs trumpets attention to detail, your message(s)
illustrate an ability to scope advice in setting that level of detail. So
as the bees will test your decisions and decide there ultimately is your
 teacher.

Bill

[djgriggs]

Okay everyone feel free to join in..

I was contacted today and told that I can pick up my bees between April 24th and the 29th..

There will be two single 10 frame foxes. I am told that each box will have a full 10 frame of bees..

Here is my hives



my question is as follows

1. Do I just add each single box of bees to my current two brood boxes making 3 for each hive
2. Or do I take the frames from the current single boxes with bees and checkerboard them into the new hives.

[BeeMaster2]

JD,
That depends, are all the frames full of bees or at least 8 of them full, then place them on the bottom board and place the super on top with the frames installed. If not, just put the new box on the bottom board and add the inner cover and lid.
Jim

[Acebird]

Neither.  First you should look at what you get and not go by what you are told.  If the fairy tail is true then add one box on top of it, not two, and pull a couple of frames up into to it from below.

[djgriggs]

I am not rushing to a conclusion of what to do ,, I am working toward being prepared for when I pick up the bees. Yes I am aware that what I am told can actually be different. I am just trying to come up with ideas and not wait till the last moment...

Currently what appears to be my two options are

transferring the bees to the new hives or just insert the new boxes into the hives... Is this correct... ?

[cao]

What I would do is move the frames to your boxes.  That would give you a good look at what you have.  Start with the outside frame that has the least amount of bees and continue across the box moving frames to your hives.  If they are all drawn and have plenty of bees then I would do as Ace said and keep a couple frames to put in your second box (in the center for guides for the bees to follow when drawing new comb).  Replace them with new frames. 

What time of the day are you getting them?  If you get them early in the morning, I would transfer them that day.  If it is later in the day, I would temporarily set them next to your hives and wait til the next morning.

[djgriggs]

I was considering taking off of work around 10 or so picking up the bees and working to transfer via checker boarding. keep in mind I will be getting two  boxes, one for each hive.

[cao]

I would not checkerboard the frames because that would spread out the brood nest too much for the bees to regulate temp.  I would just insert a couple empty frames on the outside edge of brood nest(one on each side).  In a ten frame box it would typically be near frame 2-3 and 8-9.  I would take the original two outside frames and put them in the middle of your second box side by side.  That should be above the center of the brood nest.  The bees should readily move up when needed.  This is of course all depends on how full your boxes are.

[Acebird]

I know some people say to take the outside frames in the lower box and move them to the center of the new box but I don't like that idea.  Bees tend to build drone comb on the outside of the nest and I don't want drone comb right in the middle of the brood nest.  So in your nice warm area I would just pull up the two center frames to the center of the new box and drop in two new frames of foundation in that space.  Up where I live I would pull two frames from the center and then push the frames together adding a new frame to each outside space.  If you are using foundationless they would have to go to the outside no matter what.