5 frame nucs trial run

[beepro]

Hi, All!


Ever since I've decided to take up on beekeeping, I have been thinking is there a way to lessen the heavy bee
boxes, especially when an 8 or 10 frame box is full of honey or broods.   Then I saw these 5 frame nuc boxes.  And started thinking, what if I can
stack them up full of cap broods and exclude the queen to the bottom box.  Will this generate a large forager population and give me plenty of honey at
the same time?   At least my thinking is, after the cap broods all emerged from the top boxes they will gather honey up there.  The queen in the bottom box will
continue to lay.   At the same time these boxes are not that heavy to life either.   One box will be around 30 lbs. max once full of bees or honey.   

A trial run is being conducted with 11 frames of cap broods in a 4 level nuc boxes right now.   So far I've seen plenty of new emerged bees and a strong forager population along with 3 frames of new nectar this Spring.   And in case you decided to make more splits out of them, a 5 frame nuc box should be sufficient to house another new queen.    Simply stack them up (for honey production) or take them down (to make new nuc splits) when it is too populated.

[Robo]

I do a lot of 5 frame beekeeping and actually find colonies grow much fast in this configuration (bees grow better vertically than horizontally).  One draw back is when you get 5 or 6 deeps high it can become difficult to work and also becomes a tipping hazard.  I'm don't think 5 frames is a big enough brood nest unless you are running low progeny bees, I think you will have swarming issues.

If box weight is an issue,  you don't have to move whole boxes.  I knew a little old lady, who was a great beekeeper and always had a cart with an empty hive body.  She would move one frame at a time.

[eltalia]

I am trialling a 3/4 Lang width long topbar hive structure for exactly
the reasons you cite BP. All was going well 3months in until recent
extended rain event - another on it's way.
Within hours of sunshine breaking the colony absconded as water
had got into the hive body. Sooo they were doing well enough to give
dBoss the finger!

I start again, hive body is in the workshop.
Point of post is these frames will be just under a kilo each when
fully capped.

Bill

[beepro]

My bottom nuc hive where the queen is at have 4 screws that I can take off the front box panel and donate the broods to other
weak nuc hives.   This will increase honey production because of a large forager force.    New drawn frames will be added to the
bottom box once the brood frames are transferred out.    I have 70 drawn frames prepare just for this trial run. 

[Robo]

Not sure how you are getting the larger forager force if you are stealing brood to give to other nucs.   You have cut the brood nest down to 1/2 a 10 frame deep which is a 1/4 of what most folks run. Plus plan on stealing(?).  Where are all these foragers coming from?

[cao]

When I make nucs I put them in five frame boxes.  Then add a second and third box as needed.  Most of the time I move them into eight or ten frame boxes after they fill 2 or 3 five frame boxes.  Last year I overwintered five hives that were three boxes tall.  This year was a little colder.  The five I tried didn't make it.  I think the narrow hive with the colder  weather didn't let them break cluster to get to the honey on the next frame.  They do seem to build up better in five frame boxes when small. 

[Robo]

  I think the narrow hive with the colder  weather didn't let them break cluster to get to the honey on the next frame.

I agree, that is why I overwinter in polystyrene.   I do have a friend that has good success putting two nuc colonies side by side so they share a common wall and then wrapping them together with insulation.

[cao]

I do have a friend that has good success putting two nuc colonies side by side so they share a common wall and then wrapping them together with insulation.

I will admit that I was going to do that but just got lazy last fall and didn't move them together.

[jimineycricket]

Why not stack 5 frame supers, two wide, on top of ten frame brood boxes over a QE?  If they get too high maybe tie them together.

[Robo]

Why not stack 5 frame supers, two wide, on top of ten frame brood boxes over a QE?  If they get too high maybe tie them together.

That is one possibility.   I prefer to use 5 frame hives for comb honey, they are usually in a comb drawing frenzy.

[tjc1]

Why not stack 5 frame supers, two wide, on top of ten frame brood boxes over a QE?  If they get too high maybe tie them together.

How do you get two 5 frame nucs to fit over a 10 frame box without hanging over/leaving an opening?

[Robo]

How do you get two 5 frame nucs to fit over a 10 frame box without hanging over/leaving an opening?

You don't.  Worse case you use a cap block like Killion did with his comb honey supers.

[eltalia]

How do you get two 5 frame nucs to fit over a 10 frame box without hanging over/leaving an opening?

You don't.  Worse case you use a cap block like Killion did with his comb honey supers.

[nodding]
Working with nucs outside of starters can get very messy very fast :-/

Bill

[little john]

Why not stack 5 frame supers, two wide, on top of ten frame brood boxes over a QE?  If they get too high maybe tie them together.

How do you get two 5 frame nucs to fit over a 10 frame box without hanging over/leaving an opening?

Michael Palmer uses this format by having pairs of 4-frame nucs over a 10-frame divided brood box.  I use pairs of 5-frame nucs over an 11-frame divided brood box.   The divided brood box - whilst not being essential - does provide a stable base for the stack.
LJ

[jimineycricket]

Why not stack 5 frame supers, two wide, on top of ten frame brood boxes over a QE?  If they get too high maybe tie them together.

How do you get two 5 frame nucs to fit over a 10 frame box without hanging over/leaving an opening?

 I made my own 5 frame nuc's after the D. Coates tradition, so they do fit over a 10 frame box. You might tack a small strip of wood on the 10 frame box where the 5 frame boxes overhang to fill the space.

[beepro]

I use 2 support colonies also 5 frame nucs to donate cap broods to this booming hive headed by a young mark queen from this
Spring (mated early Jan.)    The other 2 nuc hives are booming with young bees also.  This will curb their swarming tendency for now should
this booming hive swarm away, I still have 2 hives left.    If not then this booming hive will give me plenty of Spring honey.  The flow is here.  Supers on!

[sc-bee]

I prefer to use 5 frame hives for comb honey, they are usually in a comb drawing frenzy.

-Any management do's/ don't for trying comb with 5 frame ncus. 

-I like five frame nucs but begin to have swarming issues at 3rd level. Any tips on keeping five high going. Pyramid brood up I guess? Open brood nest?

[sc-bee]

How do you get two 5 frame nucs to fit over a 10 frame box without hanging over/leaving an opening?

You don't.  Worse case you use a cap block like Killion did with his comb honey supers.

Could you lead me too "cap block like killion". I found nothing with a google search...

[Robo]

[Ben Framed]

A picture is worth a thousand words, I like it Robo!! Good job!!

[beepro]

So either put the 5 boxes in the middle of the 10 box with 2 wooden planks on either side of the 10 or put the 5 box on the left side of the 10.  Give me a great idea Robo.  I could not of thought of that.  The 5 boxes are all honey supers.  Or you can add cap broods from other supporting hives into the top 5 nuc box.  What if you just want to graft into the 10 box after removing all the 5 boxes?  A bee bomb hive.  So much flexibility and control with this hive configuration.  Consolidation is the key!

[sc-bee]

Ok duhhhhhh.... not sure what I was expecting... I really over thought that one 

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Robo {I knew a little old lady, who was a great beekeeper and always had a cart with an empty hive body.  She would move one frame at a time.}

Add one old man to that list, Hint He lives in Arkansas and uses a wheel barrel in lieu of a cart.
Blessings

[beepro]

An update:


Last week's inspection was a surprise.   90% of the cap broods from all the nuc boxes have emerged.  Now it is a
booming hive with lots of new bees.  The mature foragers are at the bottom box with the queen while majority of the
newly emerged bees are at the top boxes.  I manage to donate 2 frame of newly emerged bees back to the other weak
nuc hive.   Don't want the booming nuc hive to swarm this early in the season.   Imagine what you can do with a colony packed full
of bees:  1) To make splits that each 5 frame nuc hive has the potential to make another colony with a new mated bought queen. 2) Condense
the bees down into one nuc hive to make a bee bomb for queen grafting.  3) Take out the queen and let them make some queens for splits. Then
super up!  Wonder what else you can do with a booming hive?