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Author Topic: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?  (Read 654 times)

Offline 2Sox

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How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« on: March 15, 2018, 05:06:49 pm »
Just purchased my first extractor. (Been doing crush and strain into a capping straining system for years.)  I'm wondering if you have any ideas about how to heat the drum of the extractor to get the honey to flow rapidly and get as much of it out as possible. I've used a waterbed heater for my capping system to increase flow rate and it has worked great.  How have you all been solving this problem for extracting though?
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Offline Acebird

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 05:57:44 pm »
You don't heat the extractor you heat the frames.  Depending on how many boxes you do at a time will determine how big a room/space you use.  Caution, the more you heat the frame the weaker the wax gets and if you go too far you will have blow outs.
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Offline texanbelchers

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 06:20:15 pm »
I've seen band heaters that go around the extractor at the base; mostly on European sites.  I can't imagine the honey would be there long enough to really benefit and that won't help with the actual extraction.  As Ace said, heat the frames gently to help extraction.  Once through the extractor, you can use your old method to warm for further processing, if necessary.

Offline Acebird

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 08:55:55 pm »
To gently heat honey in an extractor would take a long time.  Think about making pudding.  You have to stir at low heat until your arms fall off or you ruin the pudding.  Warm the honey in the box before you extract and you will have no problem getting the honey out of the extractor.
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Offline tjc1

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 09:39:04 pm »
Hmmm... I never thought of this before - I just extract the honey, and since that is usually in mid to late July for me, it has never been a problem as it runs pretty good then. At the end I take a plastic spatula, tip the extractor, and squeegee the last of the honey out of the gate.

Offline 2Sox

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2018, 12:52:53 am »
Thanks guys.  I ask because I know from experience what a job it is to get cold honey out of the capping system I've been using - even with a spatula.  I don't like doing the work.  It runs out beautifully when it is warmed from beneath by a waterbed heater - and using a spatula to get the last drops.  I don't like the idea of heating the frames.  I'm thinking of using one of these wrapped around the extractor:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X96KZQS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Or a small propane one burner camping stove on a low flame beneath the drum:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EHKQ2A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
Seems easier and definitely cheaper with this.

I'd like to hear your opinions
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline texanbelchers

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2018, 12:59:42 am »
My opinion, don't do it.  It will have no effect on the honey in the frames.   Once spun out,  it exits the extractor immediately and will not be warmed.   To keep the extractor spinning freely you have to be draining as you go.

Use your bed warmer and heat the boxes of frames before uncapping.   Just my opinion........

Offline cao

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2018, 01:27:18 am »
I agree with texanbelchers.  When I extract the frames have been sitting in my house in the AC.  They would extract much faster just raising the temp 10-15 degrees.  Say from 75 to 85-90 degrees.   

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2018, 07:22:37 am »
There is no way I would use either method. You will have hot spots and you will cook your honey to make it no better than store bought honey.
Jim
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2018, 07:33:14 am »
If you take your supers of honey to about 28 degrees C then they will extract fine.
Thermostat controlled fan heater will do the job
First up wax foundation will blow out at that temp.
PS we use plastic foundation.

Offline Acebird

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2018, 08:53:00 am »
If you take your supers of honey to about 28 degrees C then they will extract fine.
Thermostat controlled fan heater will do the job
First up wax foundation will blow out at that temp.
PS we use plastic foundation.

I use an electric oil heater to bring our small kitchenette up to 85F+ and wax foundation.  Never had a blow out.  Frames are at least 95% empty in two minute spin time.  I would not hesitate to spin foundationless frames at that temperature.
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Offline 2Sox

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2018, 01:21:18 pm »
You guys got me thinking.  And thanks. To clarify:

My concern is NOT the temperature of the wax in the comb.  And I'm not concerned about blowouts as I'm using plastic frames/foundation.  I'm sure the honey will extract out just fine.

My concern is to get the temperature of the honey, inside the drum, warm enough to run out smoothly and as completely as possible.  Of course I'll monitor the heat of the drum (I have stick on thermometers).  I definitely don't want to cook my honey.  And I don't believe there will be hot spots with a heater set 15 inches below the drum - on low, for this short period of time.

After all the honey is extracted and runs out, there is an inch or so on the bottom. In my view, if the honey is nice and warm, tilting the unit and using a spatula would be an easy task. ( I found that to be true for my crush and strain system. I have this - a double bin cappings tank - on a permanently inclined board, set on 2x4s raising it 2 inches above the waterbed heater.)  I've learned from observation that a water bed heater thermostat turns off every few minutes probably because it is exposed to air - not a waterbed.  That's why my honey hasn't been cooked.  But I did forget to turn the heater off once after emptying, and the honey remnants on the bottom did burn. It was an interesting lesson.

Comments?
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Acebird

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2018, 04:33:25 pm »
Well if you want to hear them...
It takes about 50 watts for a hour to raise one gal water 20 degrees.  How many gallons of honey do you have and how long do you want to wait?  You can warm the honey in the frame prior to extracting by leaving it in a room for days so you are not wasting time trying to heat it in the extractor.  This will help extracting, straining and cleaning.  There is even an advantage of doing it for crush and strain because the straining goes so much faster.  The beauty of it all is you never have to worry about overheating the wax or the honey.  I would not want a 50 watt light bulb near my honey for an hour and that is only for a gal.  How many watts is this blanket?
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Offline 2Sox

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2018, 10:57:28 pm »
Well if you want to hear them...

I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want to hear.  Thanks for your feedback, Ace.

By the way, that drum heater I referenced in a previous post is not appropriate for honey.  Gets too hot. However, Mann Lake and others make items appropriate for the task.  Like this one:

https://www.mannlakeltd.com/shop-all-categories/extraction-bottling/honey-bottling/heaters/briskheat-sup-reg-sup-drum-heater

Didn't want to spend this much but at least this proves once more that there is a tool for every task, a solution for every problem. 
 
 I do appreciate your input along with those of others on this, though. Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 01:57:47 am by 2Sox »
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Acebird

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2018, 08:43:50 am »
at least this proves once more that there is a tool for every task, a solution for every problem. 
 
There are many ways to heat a vessel including wrapping a garden hose around it and running hot water through the hose.  I think what most people are thinking is you are trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.
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Offline 2Sox

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2018, 10:45:38 am »
at least this proves once more that there is a tool for every task, a solution for every problem. 
 
There are many ways to heat a vessel including wrapping a garden hose around it and running hot water through the hose.  I think what most people are thinking is you are trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

Ace, It's very often difficult to interpret a person's true meaning from the written page. And I don't want to think you are being provocative by your statement here.  I've always met kind people here who truly want to help.  Do you think it's a bit presumptuous to think you know what "most people are thinking"?.  I've tried to be clear in previous posts on what I'm trying to accomplish.  I hope you see that.  Again, I thank you for your input.
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Acebird

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2018, 12:42:01 pm »
And I don't want to think you are being provocative by your statement here.
Certainly not.
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Offline chux

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 01:06:13 pm »
If you put "cold" honey frames in a "hot" extractor, the "cold" honey will flow out of the frames SLOWLY until the honey has had time to warm in the "hot" extractor. It will take time for the honey to warm inside the extractor. If you are only have a couple of supers to extract, and time doesn't matter, go for it. The honey will eventually warm and run out of the extractor. If you want the honey to come out of the frame faster, and run out of the extractor faster, then you need to heat the honey frames before you put them in the extractor. If you put warmed honey frames into a "cold" extractor, the honey will flow out of the frames quickly, and will also flow out of the "cold" extractor quickly, before it has time to cool and slow down.

If your honey is cold enough that it is not flowing out of your extractor after spinning out of the comb, then you need to warm the frames before extraction. This solves your problem. Heating the extractor instead of heating the honey frames can solve your problem, but it is less desirable because it will take longer to get what you want. I'd suggest not reinventing the wheel here. Generations of beekeepers before us, and with us now, have had to deal with the issue of extracting "cold" honey. The traditional and effective approach has been to warm the honey before extraction.

If you try going another direction and get better results, post it here and you could start a new trend.   

Offline GSF

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 01:16:17 pm »
I guess there's another advantage of beekeeping in the South - I NEVER worry if it's going to be too cold to extract  :wink:
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: How to Speed Up Flow Out of Extractor?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2018, 05:02:10 pm »
An elcheapo heater is an electric blanket. We had a large polystyrene box, about 3x3x3 that we hung the electric blanket around the inside walls. you have 3 settings and can get supers warm over a couple of days.