I have decided to try plastic foundation.

[craneman54]

I have 4 hives, each with a brood box and 3 supers.I know the bees will use the plastic foundation once I cat them with bee wax. What I can't seem to find out is if the queen will lay brood on the plastic foundation.

If the queen will raise brood on the plastic foundation, what is the best way to change the old foundation? Checker boarding or some other method?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Greetings Crane. I do not like to alter or move brood frames so I would start by placing new foundation next to brood frames or place as outside frames.

Sometimes the bees ignore the new frames, in that case I coat frames with sugar solution with lemon grass oil.  Use the essential oil very sparingly, like a drop to a gallon.

My queens have no issues with plastic frames.
Blessings

[Acebird]

A package maybe.  Shake all the bees into new foundation and let them rob out the old hive.

[craneman54]

I forgot to say I am going to apply wax to all of my new foundation.

2 of my hives were caught in traps and I have had them for 4 years now. They produce a lot of honey but I am thinking,not knowing how old the queens are, I may have to replace them come spring.

Any more thoughts?

[Dallasbeek]

Welcome back to the forum, crainman.  Your avatar has beeb missed.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mr. Crane consider the queens may have been replaced last year, who knows.  Back in the 60?s yes 1960,,, I always let the bees manage their own queens.  I never requeened for 6 years with three hives.  Yes they usually swarmed, I did not mind as the produced 2 supers of Honey each hive, each year.  You obliviously have good genetics, why mess with it? 

I now raise queens for the challenge, but I have two alpha queens, Cordovan itialian, that I do not mess with.
Blessings

[craneman54]

Thanks Dallas.

I been pretty busy as of late.

I hope to be around a little more, at least for now.

[craneman54]

Van, thanks for the response. I was half way between replacing and keeping those 2 queens, you helped me decide.
I will be replacing the queens in my other 2 hives. They just don't seem to be producing hardly half of what the others do.

[minz]

I always have issues with the bees packing the outside frames with honey and back filling the brood nest. Just keep stealing the honey and replacing it with plastic. As long as I wax them heavy and not leave them in when they stop drawing, the bees seem to take to them. If I leave the frames where they get all tracked up and brown before they are drawn they do not get drawn until I pull them, and wax them again.
Also good to see your eagle fly!

[craneman54]

minz I was thinking of wash boarding but was not sure if that was the right hing to do.

I have plenty of clean wax from previous honey collecting. This past fall I used a small roll and melted wax on some plastic frames to do some coating. That is what I have planned for this next harvest. Twill also do the same  in the brood boxes.

For those who commented on my Eagle. Thanks but I want to say something encase people think I served in the military.  Sorry, When I went to join the service The recruiter said I would be listed as 4F because of childhood accidents and other health problems.

I am just an old Cajun that loves his country and Thanks those who sacrificed life and limb for this great land we call home.

I also want to personally thank those brave people who have served that are a part of Bee life and helping those of us who need that help.

[Barhopper]

I would checkerboard the wax coated foundation in between brood frames. Do it all the time. In the south, I see your in Louisiana, our growing season is a lot more longer than northern regions so the bees have time to draw them out. I recently did this, two weeks ago, when I checked them today 5hey were drawn and laid up. Try it slow and see how it works for you.

[craneman54]

Thats what I am thinking now.We have some rain coming this week end . I'll probably start  working the plastic frames in beginning this coming week.

[Bush_84]

While I cannot say that I have had the issues others have had with plastic foundation.  I would say that foundationless is always drawn out much more readily. When I want plastic drawn out I don?t give them another option and put it in the middle of the brood nest. The colony has to be in a position where that is safe however.

[Oldbeavo]

If you want a single frame drawn then in the middle of the brood will work.
If you wait till you have a honey flow then give them a whole box of plastic frames, no other option and they will draw them. We wax our plastic foundation with a paint roller.
Checker boarding in a super usually end up in a mess for our experience.

[craneman54]

Since I started with bees I have gone foundation less. I always wind up with cross comb and bur comb all over the super. That's why I am going with plastic. A friend and I bought a small extractor so we can harvest without destroying all the foundation. I am also replacing  brood frames with plastic because the brood frames I have now have been in use for 4 years and are very dirty.
I have plenty of wax to coat the foundation with and will be using a small paint roller to do the wax coating.

[eltalia]

Since I started with bees I have gone foundation less. I always wind up with cross comb and
bur(sic) comb all over the super. That's why I am going with plastic.

This change in management is a very significant move and now you say
you are including extraction in the equation I ask have you thought this
through to the end point where you have all frames in all colonys holding
plastic foundation?
Also, what is it with wax foundation you find unsuitable?

I declare a personal aversion to the product - shared by bees in many a
colony - yet can say those I have seen use it sucessfully for extraction
have crosswired the frames. Crosswire is piano wire wire strung from
corner to corner. Some also cut the corners away maybe 20mm, said to
improve acceptance.
IF I was to bring these frames to a colony it would be whilst a heavy flow
is on and as honey supers. Once extracted then the drawn frames would be
put to a broodchamber.
I will say that in my experience plastic foundatipn once drawn evenly is
well accepted by bees, anywhere. It is the frustration - read colony
bewiderment - in getting sufficient cleanly drawn frames I find unacceptable.

Bill

[cao]

I have used the plastic foundation for several years now(along with wax foundation and foundationless).  I have learned that the bees will accept them if there is plenty of wax on them.  I either dip them or use a small paint brush to add extra wax.  I can usually tell where I brushed the wax on with the brush because the bees will have that area drawn ou farther then the rest.  I have recently been cutting some of the foundation into 1" strips and using it for starter strips.  It works great in the supers if you are wanting cut comb honey.  If you are replacing frames in the brood box, I would insert one or two at a time and remove the outside ones.  One down side to using all foundation (plastic or wax) is they have to rework it for drone cells.  Or they build the drone cells in burr comb between boxes.  I have noticed that the hives that have some area to raise drones in the frames tend to build less burr comb between boxes.  As stated by Oldbeavo checkerboarding in honey supers tend to not go well.  If you add a full box with plastic foundation(with the extra wax) you should be o.k.

I have plenty of wax to coat the foundation with and will be using a small paint roller to do the wax coating.

I used to think that too.  Now all my wax goes back on the plastic foundation.     It doesn't go as far as you would think.

[minz]

I agree that your foundation should go into the brood nest in between drawn worker brood frame. You have to remove something to add something and I was suggesting a strategy to pulling the outside frames with only honey. You can also move your beat up frames outboard of the brood nest, allow the brood to hatch. You could even open up the honey frame and place it by the hives in weather that is just warm enough to fly (keeps the robbers from far yards out of your stores)
In spring here the bees are doing their best to expand their population. I would suggest only a frame or two and would therefore not use the word checkerboard. It will allow for expansion of brood nest and building new wax (young bees make wax)
You were the pen turner weren?t you? I used to turn wood as a mindless exercise and now I find that building bee equipment to fill that gap. I have way too much gear now and need to stop building.

[craneman54]

minz yes I am a wood turner although I have not done much turning lately. I have  a few more projects to take care of then I can get back to my turning.

Thanks for the advise and the help.

[BeeMaster2]

Crane,
Since you have been using foundation less frames, I would recommend seeing if you can get small cell plasticell. That way you have the best of 2 worlds. I have several hundred sheets if large cell plasticell and I really wish I had bought the small cell sheets.
The big error in using plastic foundation is trying to mix wax or found less with plastic in the same super. If they have a choice, they will not use the plastic. If the super has all plastic with a goof wax coat, especially a fresh wax coat, they will build on it beautifully.
Jim

[craneman54]

Hey sawdust nice to hear from you.

I did buy the rite cell unwaxed plasticell, I have bout40 lbs or more of clean wax I have been saving. Last fall I used the plasticell on the frames that I harvested . Put on a liberal coat of melted wax with a 4" roller and they took to it well.

Now for the bad news. Last week I checked my 4 hives they were all flying around the day after a good freeze. This afternoon I went to put them some sugar water and 1 of my hives is completely empty except for the empty wax comb.
There were no dead bees to be found.The whole hive must have hit the road and any stores left were probably robbed out.

I guess I will be putting out swarm traps this week.

[BeeMaster2]

Today I talked a fellow Beek that lives about 6 miles away. He went into winter with 30 hives. He now has 4. Another long time Beek had 40 hives going into winter and now he also has 4 hives. It has been a very bad winter here.
Jim

[craneman54]

We had a cold winter also. We usually don't get snow,we got some twice this year and also several hard freezes.  My hives are on the south side of some very tall and thick hedge's. 

I'll catch a couple of swarms to replace that hive and keep on trucking.

[chux]

It's been a really tough winter in NC too. I'm hearing of major losses, over 90%.

Put the foundation in the brood chamber, maybe two at a time, in slots 3 and 7??? If a flow is on and it is warmer, you can slap more frames in there, rotating the drawn comb from the outside, out.

[cao]

I guess my losses so far ain't as bad as I thought.  So far(with fingers crossed) only 5 out of 38 and four of them were smaller ones.  I still have about a month to go.

[craneman54]

Well I am going to set out some swarm traps tomorrow and hopefully get 1 or 2 replacements for the one I lost.

I have a little Lemon grass oil left, Hopefully that will be enough.

How would coating some foundation with watered down honey work to catch a swarm. Or maybe some fresh wax on the old foundation?

[cao]

I would think honey would just attract robbers.  The wax would work better IMO.  A piece of old brood comb would help too.  Anything to make it smell like home.  Good luck.

[craneman54]

Yes I thought of them robbing the honey a little while ago.

I have some wax and old comb to bait with. I will try sveral of the methods and see wich ones work the best.

Thanks for the help.

[little john]

Today I talked a fellow Beek that lives about 6 miles away. He went into winter with 30 hives. He now has 4. Another long time Beek had 40 hives going into winter and now he also has 4 hives. It has been a very bad winter here.
Jim

That's bad news.  I suspect it's going to be the same story on this side of the pond - a different kind of 'bad winter' - but with a similar outcome.  4 people have died so far in the latest freeze, and the country has more-or-less ground to a standstill.
LJ

[BeeMaster2]

Most of the hives dies before we had freezing weather. Does not make sense. I know of at least two more similar cases that happened in St Augistine, it is about an hours drive south of Jacksonville.
Jim

[craneman54]

What has me puzzled it I didn't any bee bodies or parts.

I just finished making 4 Bee traps so I hope to replace that hive within the next week or so.

[2Sox]

Crane,
Since you have been using foundation less frames, I would recommend seeing if you can get small cell plasticell. That way you have the best of 2 worlds. I have several hundred sheets if large cell plasticell and I really wish I had bought the small cell sheets.
The big error in using plastic foundation is trying to mix wax or found less with plastic in the same super. If they have a choice, they will not use the plastic. If the super has all plastic with a goof wax coat, especially a fresh wax coat, they will build on it beautifully.
Jim

I've been doing foundationless for years along with crush and strain. Put 2 or three frames w/foundation into each box to get them started.  I got some plastic frames from another beekeeper who liquidated.  I've put these in with foundationless and in my experience, the bees have no problem building on them just as readily as they do with wax foundation.

So I just ordered several cases wood frames with "Quickdraw" plastic frames from Mann Lake.  Ordered one case of all plastic (wax coated) just to see if I like them.  I just ordered my first made in China extractor.  Looking forward to it and not working as hard.   
   
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