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Author Topic: Very Defensive bees  (Read 3406 times)

Offline Oneamateur

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Very Defensive bees
« on: February 22, 2018, 12:00:37 pm »
I wonder what happened to my beehive. Last year, it was very calm going in the winter. Since the weather is warmed up, they are very defensive. I can't even get close to it within 20 yards. 30 to 40 of them would come and get me. Dang! How would I deal with it? I know I need to replace the queen. It's hard to get a queen during this time of the year. How do I check the hive without being smothered with lots of bees? Any suggestions? Thanks.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 12:47:57 pm »
No idea where you are so it is hard to answer.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 01:01:41 pm »
In several of his/her early posts he/she says NW Florida. 

Oneamateur, if you put your location in your profile people will stop asking where you are.  Answers to many questions are directly relatrd to your location.  Welcome to the forum.

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Offline little john

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 01:10:41 pm »
Well, not knowing the history of the colony I can't comment on "what happened" - but with regard to inspections, here's a few tips:

1) ask yourself "why am I doing an inspection ?"  If you can't come-up with a really convincing reason - then don't inspect. 

2) in general, it's the older bees which possess the most 'attitude', and it's also the older bees who are the foragers ... so ... if you really MUST inspect that hive, then pick a time when the bulk of foragers are no longer at home - i.e. on a nice warm and sunny 'flying' day.

3) even on the nicest of days there will always be some foragers returning to the hive, and so the best way of dealing with these (if possible, depending on hive type, size, and so forth) is to physically move the hive body a few feet to one side and conduct your inspection there.  Returning foragers will then start to congregate around the original stand position (rather than your veil !).

That's really about all you can do until you're in a position to re-queen - except you may want to give some thought to culling drone brood if that colony is REALLY cranky - to save spreading those undesirable genes around.
LJ
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 02:52:56 pm »
How many boxes, and what size, is the queen occupying?
Has Spring sprung in your area? Is there plenty of feed available?

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 05:42:58 pm »
One, sorry about the aggressive bees.  Understand requeening a vicious hive is not easy.  The vicious hive will most likely kill the introduced queen.

Protect yourself!!  You will have to find, destroy the existing queen, then a week to 9 days later, destroy queen cells, every single one.   Then introduce a new queen in protectived cage or supply eggs from a docile colony.

if the hive is a double deep, then split the hive as working with half the vicious bees is easier.  That is dealing with 20,000 angry is better than dealing with 40,000 vicious bees.

Follow Lil John advice above.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 06:25:10 pm »
If the season is right then you can deal with finding the queen and lessen the stings.
Our bees use 8 frame full depth as brood boxes. For a vicious hive we set up 3, 4 frame nucs.
Give each nuc a frame of brood and another frame of brood or honey, add another 2 frames, fill the hive with frames. take the nucs away.
 Next day add queen cell to each lot, where the queen cell is torn down is where the queen is, hopefully in a nuc with less bees and easier to find. Kill queen and after a few days as per post before, knock off new QC's
and add some eggs from a quiet hive.
Alternatively, if the queen is still in the main box, find, kill, knock off QC's and leave queenless until new Q's
in nucs are laying and add a nuc back to the main hive.
Hope this makes sense.

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 06:43:45 pm »
Don't forget to suit up, tape up around the edge of hte bee suit, and smoke a lot. It should minimize stings.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 07:04:43 pm »
Oldbeavo, that is a new trick to me, ?split, add a queen cells, the hive with destroyed cell is the queen hive.?  I split, then a week, 9 days better, I look for brood.  I never thought of using ?queen bait.?

Makes perfect sense.

Vicious hives, I mean really vicious hives are terrible about killing young introduced queens and the bigger the vicious hive the more adamant the bees are about rejecting a new queen.  A new young queen is nervous not secure as say a 4 month old queen that has been laying and proven herself.  A vicious hive can detect the insecure, not proven, queen and will promptly kill her.  A proven queen that displays maturity would have a much better chance of acceptance.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 10:13:48 pm »
Hope this makes sense.
Yeah, if you don't mind having your nuts in a vice and turning the crank every five minutes.
If I ever have to deal with this I am going to suit up with armor and split the hive in half.  In a day or two I will know where the queen is and will attempt to introduce an new mated queen or virgin on the queenless side.  Now if I can stand another crank on the vice I will split the queen side in half again.  In a day or two you know the drill.  So maybe once in my life I will wash the car and the queen side will get the dirty wash water.
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Offline Oneamateur

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 10:32:29 pm »
It's a young queen that I had split one hive in 2 last summer. They are in a 10 deep frame brood box. I had no problem checking and feeding the hive during the fall and winter at all. The weather has been in low 70 F during daytime and upper 50 F at night  in this region, NW Florida. The bees are bringing home pollen.  A week ago, I opened the outer cover of the feeding box to refill the 1:1 sugar syrup. They came out, at least 20, trying to sting me. Now they are out in full force if I get closer than 20 yards from the windward.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 12:06:35 am »
They could be Africianized or something has been disturbing them which has made them defensive. Check for red carpenter ants around the hive, they will turn a nice hive mean overnight. Could be from robbing from another hive in the area. Loosing the queen will also turn a hive hot, get out the smoker and suit up, smoke the hive and watch the entrance for pollen going in and lots of drones.
  A quick inspection to see what's going on is needed. Look for brood, drones and capped honey and don't spare the smoke.

Offline Oneamateur

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2018, 11:17:27 pm »
This morning, I put on extra clothes for checking the bees. I misted them with sugar syrup and smoke them. I also misted my suit and glove with sugar syrup. The combinations kept them busy while I'm checking the hive. I found 7 frames of broods and 1/3 a frame of drone cells. 2 frames full of nectar and honey. I could not locate the queen but I saw new eggs. There are a lot of bees. I think they are running out of room and might swarm in couple of weeks. By the time I was done with inspecting the hive, many of them try to sting me and many were busy licking the sugar of my suit. I came back to the bee yard later this evening when the sunset. One bee came and stung me. Ouch! I need to take care of this problem soon. I gotta get some queen cells. 

Offline Acebird

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2018, 10:28:26 am »
I also misted my suit and glove with sugar syrup.

What???  Why?  Smoke your hands and suit.
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Offline beepro

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2018, 08:32:18 pm »
In FL it is a declared AHB state.  So to solve your situation, you don't need any Q-cells, you need some
docile queens for requeening this aggressive hive.   Already it is too late given the aggressiveness of this hive.
On you tube there is a vid on how to conquer an aggressive hive.  Do a search to find out more about the how-to.
The virgins mated with the local aggressive drones will still be the same afterward.   Don't forget to order queens from
other states also.   On CL they are not that hard to find even at this early in the season.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2018, 07:09:18 am »
Van A
The risk of losing the new queen is lessened if the nuc is left 24 hrs to allow them to realise they are queenless.
If you put the queen cell to the side of center she can hatch out of the main bees. In an 8 frame we put the cell between frames 1 and 2.
We have had good success with vicious bees with cells in nucs if you can leave it for a while before adding the cell.
Killing the queen and putting a cell in straight away seems to be 50/50 with success.

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2018, 10:20:24 am »
This will not help stop them from coming out and getting you but will seriously help with inspections.
Get you smoker puffing thick smoke. Puff 3 or 4 puffs of smoke on the bottom. Wait 10 minutes, add 3 more puffs and wait 30 seconds. Add some smoke to the top and open it up slowly.
Jim
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Offline SoManyCats

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 11:25:09 am »
I am a total noob so I am really of no help.  But I am in somewhat the same position as the OP, though mine may be slightly less aggressive.   And like the OP it happened all of a sudden and within about 4-5 days of the same date.

My own opinion is of no use, due to inexperience, but all the vast majority of the comments I've gotten were to requeen and/or split. 

I'd love to hear follow-ups of what your outcome is.

Online BeeMaster2

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2018, 03:54:50 pm »
I have been told by very experienced beekeepers that that is a sign of a queen less hive. I have had a hive do that and get me right between the eyes every time. They were not queenless the whole time they were doing that.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline SoManyCats

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 05:35:14 pm »
I have been told by very experienced beekeepers that that is a sign of a queen less hive. I have had a hive do that and get me right between the eyes every time. They were not queenless the whole time they were doing that.
Jim

I cannot speak for the OP, but mine is definitely queenright.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 06:32:15 pm »
Van A
The risk of losing the new queen is lessened if the nuc is left 24 hrs to allow them to realise they are queenless.
If you put the queen cell to the side of center she can hatch out of the main bees. In an 8 frame we put the cell between frames 1 and 2.
We have had good success with vicious bees with cells in nucs if you can leave it for a while before adding the cell.
Killing the queen and putting a cell in straight away seems to be 50/50 with success.

Yes Sir, Beavo that is a new idea to me, {placing QC between frame 1 & 2.  I always place in between brood frames.  However I understand your logic and the logic is sound advice, I like it, {getting the cell out of traffic.}

With my hives, if I make the hive queenless the bees know the fact in 2 hours as demonstrated by entrance bees.  That is their behavior completely changes within 2 hrs: nervious, LOUD, indecisive movements as the bees walk on the entrance, circle, walk back and forth turning left and right, but the noise is a dead hive away to a queenless hive.

BTW: When I introduce a mated queen, the queen is released in a queen cage, that is an altered full but shallow frame, say 2 inches deep #8 wire.  I place QC in a mating nuc or my favorite method is my queen castle which is a 10 frame Lang hive with 4 equal partitions and 4 seperate entrances.  The queen castle offers 2 full frames to test the laying queen pattern.

I should add I am a hobbyist, my techniques would not be applicable to a large Apiary.

Thanks for sharing your ideas Beavo.
Blessings

Offline GSF

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2018, 08:14:35 am »
I've heard several people around this area speak the same thing; My hives were docile and then they went crazy. Out of 40+ hives I had 14 to turn on me. These bees were waiting on me to get home from work so they could sting me. The hives were 50 plus yards from my house. I "think" I've weeded out the mean ones but only time will tell. Hope you can iron things out.
When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - then you know your nation is doomed.

Offline tycrnp

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2018, 08:48:49 pm »
I am in NW FL also.  On of my hives has recently become very aggressive as well.  I did a split last weekend using queen cells from the aggressive hive and got the tar stung out of me.  I may have messed up and just turned 1 aggressive hive into 3....more to come.

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Re: Very Defensive bees
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2018, 01:03:09 am »
I am in NW FL also.  On of my hives has recently become very aggressive as well.  I did a split last weekend using queen cells from the aggressive hive and got the tar stung out of me.  I may have messed up and just turned 1 aggressive hive into 3....more to come.
TY,
Just put a double screen below a brood box of one of your calm hives and let them make some queen cells. Then remove the queens from the meat hives and add frames with queen cells to each hive. See my post above about calming down a mean hive.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

 

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