Feeding bees in the winter.

[bwallace23350]

I am only on my 3rd year of beekeeping. Still a beginner. I left one hive that is having tons of activity already, with orientation flights, a shallow super full of honey. Should that be enough for them or should I attempt to feed. I am thinking of just putting out feed and seeing if they take it.

[paus]

I never know if I'm doing the right thing, seems like if its wrong I find out quickly, if its right you never really know.  I'm feeding bees sugar water and pollen substitute open feeding.  They are eating very heavy.  The Elm and maple trees are turning red so they will quit taking the feed as soon as they get enough natural food.

[bwallace23350]

Yeah soon we will have dandilion, henbit, and maple trees putting out. I just prefer them not to starve

[mikecva]

This time of year if the weather is good and they are flying, I will give the bees a candy cane or two. In spring there might be a little cane left but usually not.  -Mike

[beepro]

When in doubt you can always stack the sugar bricks on top of
the top bars.  This should ease the hunger for awhile but if you really
want them to build up then give them the patty subs instead.  Too much moisture
with syrup feeding when it is still cold is not good for the hive.

[Bush_84]

It depends on your location. For me dry sugar or a brick is the only option. If it is warm enough you can feed syrup but needs to be above 50 for that.  As far as pollen patties go...they will provide protein but not calories. If they are short on honey patties won?t help.

[beepro]

During the Spring time they will need more patty when starting to brood up.
The sugar brick is there just to ensure that they have more carbs for foraging.  Mine use almost
3 times as much during the Spring time.   They are really hungry!

[tjc1]

If you have supers of honey to give them, there's nothing better than that.

[eltalia]

@tjc1 wrote as enlightenment for those lost or confused or just simple
dunno-karntno [trans: "never learn"] types;
"If you have supers of honey to give them, there's nothing better than that."

At the risk of having even more of a deluge of contradiction come my way than
has been noted I am finally well ready to commit to what should work for NH
B'Keeps in wintery climes - and you guys will have all Spring and most of Summer
to think on it.
Those set rock solid on not recognising dewpoint, the use of mediums to winter
in, and the "as delivered from Mann (et al) box" just skip this post entirely. I'll do
my bit and ignore those distractions...heh

The solution lies in two prime elements of clusters:
1. access to nutrient
2. heat transfer

Bees cannot exchange heat over wood, it is an insulator. Clusters forced to move
around wood will be thinned, likely to the point their collective energy output is
overcome by the ambient temperature.
So... don't force it on them. Grant them open spaces of only comb to 'graze'
over, food sources which benefit also from the heat transfer.

Not always can all colonys be taken to winter with ample stores. It is not always
poor management to blame for inadequate honey stores as dearths and colony
splits can happen to anyone anywhere, along with other localised inputs to the
quantity and quality of bee products.
So... MAN has to look at artifical stores, providing same in sufficient quantity,
wholly accessible to a grazing cluster without wandering about to feed.
An "advancing front" of bees moving through the winter stores AS A GROUP.

How?
Simple,  I reckon.
Manufacture a fulldepth frame sized backbone to hold concerntrated
sugar based stores in lieu of whatever frames in a single fulldepth Lang
are not fully drawn and backfilled by end of Fall.
I am thinking a spun-sugar type product as "crumble bar" which would
stick to a backbone and be structurely sound in holding bees - that is, not
break up under the weight of the bee pileup.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violet_Crumble
I'd think the choclate can be skipped... ya'll might give the lil' buggers
chronic diarehoaia (sp).
One FD.Lang with insulated lid - and adequate ventilation to hold maybe a
max 60%RH - stuffed with a full 10(ten) frames of mixed stores, should be
plenty to hold around 20K... given some stats recently posted on consumption.

Has to be worth looking at.
And should someone run off to patent a proven model I only ask that 10%
of profits go to brain cancer research, institution of choice.
----- thunkabowdeet..hey ;-)

Bill

[Acebird]

The solution lies in two prime elements of clusters:
1. access to nutrient
2. heat transfer

My bees don't believe your sermon from the Billy pulpit.  It has been proven by mankind for thousands of years that bees will live in any size shape of cavity when mankind does not interfere.

[Michael Bush]

While the difference is not large, I find that bees winter better in 8 frames than 10 and better in mediums than deeps.  The cluster almost always spans the gap between boxes and this allows the cluster to move side to side more easily.  In a climate less brutal than Nebraska, it would probably make no difference at all.

[Hops Brewster]

Sugar brick on the top bars.  They'll have it if they need it, and if they don't need it, you can pull it out and store it then turn it into syrup when you need syrup.

[eltalia]

While the difference is not large, I find that bees winter better in 8 frames than
10 and better in mediums than deeps.

In Nebraska? Or also factoring in;
a.) published studies by others
b.) observations in apiaries examined whilst touring, say..Helsinki
The number of frames is only determined by the depth of the cluster.
Where climate demands extra insulation to a standard FD broodchamber
than better to apply same, and run 10 frame, over running less frames
so as to accomadate deeper clusters over a smaller area.... only because
your box is leaking heat.

The cluster almost always spans the gap between boxes and this allows
 the cluster to move side to side more easily. 

I have read this line being put for the use of medium supers. Frankly it
boggles the mind to accept how migrating over wood to get to food is
somehow more efficient than simply advancing in line to a cell full of food.
Sure, has to happen some  time, even in a FD config, yet I would argue the
less time in a wintered box spent doing so the better.
Then we have those tumbling souls queued between frames, their arse
hanging out in mid-air clusters, waiting their go at the tucker/food, and
only because the available frame realestate is half the size it needs to be..!
This is more efficient than all bodies clustered deep on a base of warmed
comb?... helllo!

In a climate less brutal than Nebraska, it would probably make no difference at all.

Nebraska like Helsinki is simply another variance in the Btu(s)/joules
required to maintain a constant. The energy stores not being so much as
to when as more of how much. End result being that for practical purposes
running smaller colonies with little to no honey harvest in many a year
would prove "sustainable beekeeping" within those climate restrictions.


Bill

[bwallace23350]

While the difference is not large, I find that bees winter better in 8 frames than 10 and better in mediums than deeps.  The cluster almost always spans the gap between boxes and this allows the cluster to move side to side more easily.  In a climate less brutal than Nebraska, it would probably make no difference at all.

In Alabama we basically have no winter. Even with our cold winter the henbit is blooming and maples are starting to get ready to put out pollen. Less than a month from now they will have things to feed on. Oh and dandelions are also blooming.

[beepro]

Don't underestimate the less than one month time frame.
At the critical Spring build up period around this time here, the difference is a fine line between having enough
feed to grow or suffer a starvation.  When they are in expansion mode there is nothing to stop them.  Some how the
bees know when is that time.   We can only help them along by providing plenty of resources for them during this critical time.

My bees are expanding like crazy now.  I'm making split now to accommodate the rapid hive expansion.  It is very different from the
winter bees.  Some how they just know!


What do you think?:
http://imgbox.com/dujCtmNi

[eltalia]

@beepro provided;
"We can only help them along by providing plenty of resources"

Nope... whst is actually happening is your introduction of a false premise
for the bees, akin to the sending up of water shoots from plants on the
first rains, shoots that rarely bear any flowers never mind hold fruit.
Some bees are smarter than the average bear and wont take the
supplement anyway buuuut for those that do they then go backwards
where the flow fails to follow. Strong colonies survive on what flora is
available, adjusting brood rearing accordingly.

Bill

[Dallasbeek]

Seems to me eltalia is saying get out of their way and let them bee.???  They know how to do that, I think.

[eltalia]

Seems to me eltalia is saying get out of their way and let them bee.???  They know how to do that, I think.

... pretty much DB. There is a time for some bees in some locations to be fed.
The situation cited is not one of those... no matter how "local" some 'think'
the conditions are.

Bill

[beepro]

In my 5 seasons of beekeeping, at every early Spring the bees need pollen (or subs) and honey (or sugar syrup) to
build up their hive population.   This all depends on your local bee environment at build up time.   If you don't feed them they
will starve once the weather fluctuate without much food reserve.   

So when they are brooding up I just keep on feeding and make early Spring splits on the booming hives.   By then the weather is
warm enough on a normal year with adequate rains from Jan to mid-April.   When the bees grow I will expand.   This is beekeeping at its best!

[eltalia]

This is beekeeping at its best!

errrrr.. righty oh..! :-}

Bill