Need another plan for insulating hives

[Aroc]

I know some will say I don't need to insulate, just keep wind break but where I'm at it gets cold,  real cold,  like 30-40 deg f. below zero cold for sometimes weeks at a time. 

Last year I had only one hive.  I surrounded it with straw bales on three sides then insulated with 2 inch foam board strapped on with ratchet straps.  I cut each side accordingly.  I put a piece of insulation on to of the telescoping cover and laid a piece of plywood on top of that.

This year we did the same thing but with 5 hives it was a real pain in the rear.

Any ideas of what I might do that would be easier and still offer a similar insulation value?

[Robo]

I would strongly suggest switching to polystyrene hives,  or at least with any new equipment you buy.  It will be much cheaper in the long run when you consider all the extra cost you are putting into insulating your hives.   You are doing the right thing with insulating.   A warm hive will have less condensation and burn less honey.

[little john]

In your situation, I think Robo is spot-on with regard to new purchases.

With regard to your existing kit - what the old timers used to do was make-up over-wintering crates, and erect these around pairs or quadruple hives, then pour chaff (sawdust, wood shavings etc) into the gaps between the hives and the crate sides.  More chaff over the hive tops, then a substantial cover over the whole caboodle.  Instead of chaff, you could always use sheets of expanded polystyrene of course.

The crates themselves used to spend the season as flat-packs, so they didn't take up too much room - presumably several of them could be stacked together in the one pile outdoors ?  I could dig out some pictures and other info if this kind of thing should appeal to you ...

Another option - with just a handful of hives - would be to keep them in a small shed.
LJ

[Oldbeavo]

We are running 50 Paradise compressed polystyrene hives, they wintered better than our wooden hives. They are coming into their second season.
If I was starting in bees tomorrow I would use polystyrene.
Paradise honey in Finland has a website and you can see hives in the snow.

[Robo]

The best method I have seen for insulating wooden hives is what Derek Mitchell has going in the UK.   Derek's research has shown that any air leaks significantly impact heat retention.   Here are a couple of pictures of what he refers to as "Cozies"

[Acebird]

Personally I think it is silly to insulate each individual hive when you start talking multiple hives.  When the temperature gets below 20 degrees put them in an insulated shed and heat it to 20 degrees.  You might get away with ventilation to keep the RH at 50 and a back up dehumidifier at 60.  At some point in late winter it will be hard to keep the temperature down to 20 due to the heat of the hives and their build up.  So then you take them out.
You could ask Ian Stepler on the other forum if he has any pertinent numbers to determine how much heat and moisture comes off each hive so you could size for five.
So basically you buy or build a shed that is the appropriate size for the number of hives you plan to house and insulate to your hearts content.  The insulation will not hurt the shed in the summer so you don't have to keep doing it.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Question about "polystyrene" hive bodies.  Are these hive bodies light weight, subject to wind, like say styrofoam?  Will they hold a nail or screw?  Is the material delicate compared to wood?

I have never seen one of these plastic hives so general information would be appreciated.

Aroc, yes winters are brutal in Montana, I empathize for ya.  I have seen one January in which the temperature NEVER got above zeroF the entire month.  I heard in the 1960's a storm blew in and killed the cattle standing up, their legs froze.  Temp was (negative) 43F, that is 42C below zero with high wind.

Hopefully, a shinook will come your way.  Good advice on insulation already posted.
Blessings

[Sour Kraut]

Another option - with just a handful of hives - would be to keep them in a small shed.
LJ

An open front shed with the open side facing SSE ?? ....that would shade the hives in the afternoon in the summer, yet allow the sun to strike them all day in the winter months

[Aroc]

I'm intrigued by the polystyrene hive idea.  Might be worth a closer look. 

Van,

You've asked to same questions I had.

Oh, and the worst I've seen it here was about '88 or so...-40 to -60 f. for 4 weeks.  So cold a can of oil slid out like cranberry sauce....that of course was when they had cans of oil still.

[Robo]

Question about "polystyrene" hive bodies.  Are these hive bodies light weight, subject to wind, like say styrofoam?  Will they hold a nail or screw?  Is the material delicate compared to wood?

I have been using BeeMax Poly hives for 10 years now and would never go back to wood.  I have to admit I was skeptical at first (thinking styrofoam beer coolers) but have been very pleased with them.   They are made out of very dense foam that is very hard, but yet light in weight.   For the most part they are just as robust as wood and last just as well.   One benefit (I guess you can call it that) is that if a bear gets into a hive the boxes usually split quite cleanly and can be easily glued back together with polyurethane glue.  Unlike wooden hives that are splintered mess and unsalvageable. 

They are not as robust for wax moths though.  If you forget about a box and wax moths destroy it,  they will tunnel through the ploy like swiss cheese.   Acrobat ants will do the same.

I have tried Lyson, Paradise, and Superior (Paradise knock-off)  but still find the BeeMax my favorite.  Also prefer the BeeMax nucs. Second choice would be Lyson.   I still use wooden honey supers and they work well with BeeMax and Lyson.   The Paradise and Superior have no bee space on top so they are most likely not compatible with any equipment you already have,  where the BeeMax can be easily interchanged with woodenware.

They will consume about 1/3 of the stores of equivalent wooden hives if you do not leave any ventilation holes (they don't need it).  Also great for early brood build up. 

[little john]

I think Brian is basically right about a shed being more appropriate to house multiple hives, but I guess for many people building a shed appears more challenging/difficult/expensive than strapping a few sheets of polystyrene around individual boxes.

Another option - with just a handful of hives - would be to keep them in a small shed.

An open front shed with the open side facing SSE ?? ....that would shade the hives in the afternoon in the summer, yet allow the sun to strike them all day in the winter months

I think there's the kernel of a workable idea there.  The only significant difference between the over-wintering packing crates that the old-timers used to use, and a shed - is in the height.  Humans need 6'6" internal height for access, whereas beehives only need - what ? - 2-3 feet.

So - how about a 'packing case' with a removable front ?  This front being attached to the side panels with s/s clips (ex-China, cheap enough), and having 'gun-ports' located to line-up with each hive entrance.  These hives (say, 4) being in one row (facing S-S/E), rather than as in the graphic which follows.

With a removable roof, hives could be accessed from above during winter for the emergency topping-up of stores, and for inspections and other major work during the season - if the sides of this crate were fitted with small wheels at the rear, the front could then be detached with the remaining protective structure lifted up 'wheel-barrow style', and moved backwards to allow full access to the boxes.  All woodwork could be generously lined with polystyrene.

In case anyone doesn't know what a over-wintering packing-case looked like - here's a screen-grab from Phillips', 'Preparation for Outdoor Wintering', 1918:



I'm fairly optimistic that something along these lines could provide a useful working method for those who already have wooden boxes in areas with severe winters.

LJ

[Acebird]

I'm fairly optimistic that something along these lines could provide a useful working method for those who already have wooden boxes in areas with severe winters.

Combine this idea with what Robo showed making a bigger insulating box.  The nut to crack in both cases is dealing with moisture venting and not making the insulation useless.  Even on the single hive insulating box it might be an issue.
How cheaply can you make a motorized vent controlled by a humidistat?

[Robo]

The nut to crack in both cases is dealing with moisture venting and not making the insulation useless.  Even on the single hive insulating box it might be an issue.
How cheaply can you make a motorized vent controlled by a humidistat?

With a well insulated hive moisture is not a problem.   Warm air can hold a lot more moisture than cold air, which is better for their respiratory system and brood rearing.  Where is the moisture coming from?  It is a byproduct of honey consumption.  With well insulated hives honey consumption is much less which means much less water.   The key is the hives need to be sealed tight with just a bottom entrance.   I have not provided any ventilation in my poly hives for years and have not had a single moisture issue.   

[Acebird]

Each hive will expel 5 gal of water over the winter season.  That is about 52 pounds of honey consumed.  If the hive consumes more than 52 then you will get more water.  With a wide open entrance that water is going out the entrance.  If you put 5 hives under styro you are going to get a lot of water to get rid of.

[Aroc]

I've checked a with a supplier and a couple local beeks about polystyrene hives.  They all said the same thing.   They sweat real bad. 

Might have something to do with the extreme cold we can get here. 

I might still try one or two to see for myself.  Maybe a nuc if something like that is available.

[Robo]

They sweat real bad. 

Are they providing upper ventilation?   Then yes they will.

You have to look no further than a wild bee tree to see how wrong beekeepers have it.    We tend to get blinded by tradition.

[BeeMaster2]

Keep in mind, bees depend on the sweating on the walls, during the winter, for their source of water. What you do not want is cold condensation dripping down on the cluster.
Jim

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Quote from Mr. Robo. "They will consume about 1/3 of the stores of equivalent wooden hives if you do not leave any ventilation holes (they don't need it).

That's quite an impressive statement, caught my eye.  Ventilation question:  Will screened bottom boards work and achieve the same 1/3 store consumption?  I am considering purchase of the plastic hives you text about.

Due to small hive beetles, I run screened bottom boards with diatomaceous earth, baited with sub. pollen?  I can't emphasize enough the threat of shb in my area, N. Arkansas, so screened bottom boards are a must, to me.  Fellow beeks in this area, this summer, 2017, lost 20% to 50% of hives to shb.  I did not lose a single hive.
Blessings .

[Acebird]

I have had SHB problems and I do run SBB.  What is it that you think SBB help for SHB?  My area is not noted for problems with SHB.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mr. Ace, I bait my sbb with pollen substitute, about 1 inch size and surround the bait with diatomaceous earth on the bottom board.   Bees cannot get to the bait do to the screen.  I realize Ace, you understand, I  am explaining to newbies.
Blessing