Foundation less frames

[Michael Bush]

I used to dip the bevel in wax but on hot days it would fall off and then the bees would make a mess out of it.  Also sometimes a new heavy comb would come off because the wax that was dipped is not anchored nearly as well as the bees anchor it.  I quit waxing them more than a decade ago.

[Eric Bosworth]

I used to dip the bevel in wax but on hot days it would fall off and then the bees would make a mess out of it.  Also sometimes a new heavy comb would come off because the wax that was dipped is not anchored nearly as well as the bees anchor it.  I quit waxing them more than a decade ago.

Have you played around with different types of comb guides? If so what are your experiences?

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[gww]

Eric
I am not michael but look here.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
Reading this is why I just bevel my top bars on my frames.  I have not regretted it yet.
Cheers
gww

[paus]

This is the first year I have used this on all my new frames.  I drill two holes in the bottom frame about 6 inches from end of frame, yes I made a jig to get the skewers equally spaced and drill three bottom bars at a time. I build the frames in a jig and put skewers through the holes, and drive them into the top bar, as per Little John,s picture. Then I use pieces of scrape cut to the groove width( not critical) and glue them between the skewers, which have been driven into the top bar. Then  a "Little dab will do you."  of glue at bottom and top, cut the excess length skewers with heavy wire cutters and you have a stronger frame and the bees have a guide that they use very quickly. I have used the cut off skewers in the ends of a few frames to see if there is any benefit, they extend only about two inches into the frame, this remains to be seen. When I first did this I melted wax and brushed on the starter strip. Then I read that Michael Bush does not use any wax because he has had the dipped wax give away in hot weather, I have seen new comb fall off a frame but do not know if it was brushed or not.  The rest of this has proven to work for me.I  should have added the strips are cut to the size of popsicle sticks.

[Michael Bush]

>Have you played around with different types of comb guides? If so what are your experiences?

I've played around with them all.  My first one, back in 1974, was a 12 degree angle.  It was not the worst I've seen but it was not as good as I liked.  I've done all the way up to 60 degrees or so.  I like the 60 degree a lot, but I can't say it's that much better than a 45 degree.  Wood strips worked fine.  Wax strips worked fine but sometimes fell out in the heat.  A turned wedge worked fine.  A bead of wax in a groove can work with some bees, but it's not very reliable with other bees.  Some bees will just ignore it all together.  I pretty much settled on a 45 degree on each side (Making the point a 90 degree).  This is easy to cut on a table saw and works about as well as anything steeper works.  I like it to stick out at least 1/4" but not too much.  1/2"  for a strip is about the maximum I would want.  3/4" would work, but is more than I need.  A 3/4" x 3/4" x 1" chamfer molding works fine.

[Eric Bosworth]

>Have you played around with different types of comb guides? If so what are your experiences?

I've played around with them all.  My first one, back in 1974, was a 12 degree angle.  It was not the worst I've seen but it was not as good as I liked.  I've done all the way up to 60 degrees or so.  I like the 60 degree a lot, but I can't say it's that much better than a 45 degree.  Wood strips worked fine.  Wax strips worked fine but sometimes fell out in the heat.  A turned wedge worked fine.  A bead of wax in a groove can work with some bees, but it's not very reliable with other bees.  Some bees will just ignore it all together.  I pretty much settled on a 45 degree on each side (Making the point a 90 degree).  This is easy to cut on a table saw and works about as well as anything steeper works.  I like it to stick out at least 1/4" but not too much.  1/2"  for a strip is about the maximum I would want.  3/4" would work, but is more than I need.  A 3/4" x 3/4" x 1" chamfer molding works fine.

I completely agree with the 1/4" protruding guide. I just have had them start to curve comb on the ends with bevel from the router bit. They seem to keep it straight with the cove bit. It does make it quick making them. I plane 1" rough cut to 7/8" then zip it through the router, cut it off on the table saw and then zip it through the router again and so on until I run out of wood. Making medium boxes if I start with 10" wide boards I can get most of my top bars out of what is left from ripping for the sides.

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[johnwratcliff]

Deal with it in the spring no sense in messing up things when resources are scarce