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Author Topic: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth  (Read 1729 times)

Offline SkepWrangler

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Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« on: July 17, 2012, 05:11:36 am »
Fellow Beeks,

This may seem a well-hashed-over topic, but having read--I believe--all the posts on the subject, I find my situation hasn't really been addressed. 

Basic question:
What would you do protect comb from wax moths when the come has SOME honey in it? (SHB is not my question...we simply don't have them here in the desert.)

More specific question:
If freezing the frames is not an option, will honey be permanently damaged if exposed to Para-Moth?

Corollary Question:
If honey IS exposed to Para-Moth, could it--after airing out--be given back to the bees in the comb? (not talking about cut comb honey here...that is addressed in the Para-Moth labelling.)

Background:
For example, if there are multiple supers full of frames with fully drawn comb and each of the frames has some crystallized honey in the cells in the middle areas of the frames.  Is this a "never expose them to Para-Moth" situation?  I can't extract the honey because it is crystallized.  I can't reasonably freeze that volume of supers.  I can't spray the honey with solution of BT to protect against inevitable moths.
This is a big issue here because Mesquite honey and others are highly prone to crystallization.
If these types of frames can be safely stored in the Fall & Winter, the bees will--in the early Spring--clean them up before the flow.  That is IF they can be protected from moths in Fall and Winter.
I find instructions for Para-Moth here: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=para-moth+instructions&oq=para-moth+instructions&gs_l=hp.3..0i30.5377.7853.2.8312.13.3.1.9.9.0.264.645.0j1j2.3.0...0.0...1c.6s9JeIA8b8Q&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=5b17c52398a8b9e9&biw=1280&bih=657
To my reading, the printed instruction sheet doesn't really address the question.
Please, somebody who has used Para-Moth, let me know what you recommend.
Thanks,
SkepWrangler

Offline kingbee

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2012, 08:16:03 pm »
I don't see why you don't use Bt.  It is labeled for use (the last time I read the label) 4 hours before  the fruit is picked and sold at retail for raw human consumption.  Its got to be very safe to be labeled like that.

Also WMs don't do bright Sun light well.  Maybe you could expose the frames to light and protect them that way.

Offline AllenF

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2012, 08:29:04 pm »
I would not use paramoth with honey in the comb.   Extract it if freezing the frames is not an option. 

Offline kenner

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 12:00:57 am »
I understand that it's not recommended for human consumption..
BUT, would it be toxic to my bees?
I can't find much info on this.

Online Acebird

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 10:07:00 am »
BUT, would it be toxic to my bees?

It may not kill them all but why would you want to use it?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 11:52:16 am »
Mr. Skep, I studied para moth by Brushy Mtn.  They use the name "paradich-lorobenzene."  This translated to 1,4-dichlorobenzene.  Hold on, I'll explain what that means.  This chemical is very poisonous, it can cause blindness, burn the skin on contact, burn the mucos membrane in nose, throat, lungs.  It can be absorbed into your crystallized honey remaining in your comb.

I cannot advocate the use of this product on comb with honey crystals.  Personally, I would'nt have that stuff anywhere near my bees, or equipment.

Stop reading here.
      I'll give a scientific explanation.  1,4-dichlorobenzene is a very polar molecule with delta negatives on opposing ends I.e. 1,4 Chlorine, stabilized by the benzene ring.  The extreme polarity will react with many systems and difficult to detoxify due to resonance capabilities confirmed by the benzene ring.  In brief, a toxic molecule that reacts on contact with living tissue and difficult to render harmless by hepatic or immune function due to polarity and resonance stability.
Blessings

Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 12:15:35 pm »
Skep, what has worked for me to protect and preserve wax comb:  due to limited freezer space, I would freeze say 6 frames overnight, then carefully remove from the freezer and immediately place the frames in sealed plastic bags.  Yes, time consuming, but little by little I could secure many frames, over 50 in a week.

In spring, my wax frames were perfect.  Now the frames that I froze, little by little had been cleaned by the bees., your frames have some honey.  I'm not sure if the honey presents a problem or not.  How many frames are you dealing with?
Just trying to help, Mr. Skep.
Blessings

Offline gww

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 12:44:30 pm »
Skepwrangler
Why can't you use BT?  However, if you wanted something differrent, you could burn sulfer strips once a month and protect your comb.
http://beesource.com/point-of-view/dee-lusby/chemical-varroa-affects-on-honeybees/protection-of-honey-combs-from-wax-moth-damage/
Skep keepers used to dig a hole in the ground and take a stick and split the end and put a sulfer strip lit in the split in the stick and then light it and stick the stick in the side of the hole in the ground and set the skep hive over the hole.  They did this to kill the remaining bees in the skeps right before extracting.  I only mention it as an alturnitive to getting a little stove.
Good luck
gww

Online AR Beekeeper

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 01:36:37 pm »
Your options based on my experience:

If you are dealing with only a few supers of comb you can put them on the bottom board of a colony and the bees will clean them and move the honey up to the brood nest.

You can put the supers out in the open and the bees will clean the honey from the combs and put it in their colony's brood nest.  The downside is the bees will often chew the comb and destroy it in the cleaning process.

You can leave the supers of comb on colonies above the inner cover, with an empty super between the inner cover and the super containing the comb with honey.  The bees will empty the comb and take it below.  This is done much faster if the cappings are removed or scratched on the frames with honey.

You can treat the combs with para moth while they are stored in your storage building.  The honey is not fit for sale or human use, but will not bother the bees when given back to them the following spring.  The comb should be aired for a week before being placed on the colonies, or the comb being used for making nucs.


Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 04:02:22 pm »
Van and GWW,
Skep has not been on this web site for almost exactly one year. If you click on his name you can see this.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 06:34:44 pm »
Jim, thank you.   I just looked at the original date of post.  That is funny, that is I am replying to a post years old.  Glad you gave me a heads up, I would have kept posting.  Lol

Well, good to have sawdust (Jim) watching my back.
Blessings

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2017, 10:30:29 am »
Toxicity to bees must be low since it is the EPA and FDA approved product for controlling wax moths in drawn comb.  But I'm sure it's not good for bees.  A worker bee, however, only lives six weeks.  Humans live much longer and PDB is a carcinogen in humans...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#waxmoths
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeswaxmoths.htm
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline eltalia

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Re: Exposing Honey to Para-Moth
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 04:55:40 pm »
Van and GWW,
Skep has not been on this web site for almost exactly one year. If you click on his name you can see this.
Jim

/chuckles/
Reading along - only based on the handle "SkepWrangler" - as I was
looking at the OP for feedback on Skeps, I was caught also..heh

On the offchance the OP is stll reading I would welcome swapping
notes on Skep management. I have three as recent additions to
the yard with all going well thusfar.

Bill

pssst - PM is set