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Online max2

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Beekeeping under climate change
« on: December 29, 2023, 05:58:04 pm »
https://www.beeculture.com/beekeeping-under-climate-change/

Thinking back over nearly 50 years of keeping bees...ur summers here have become hotter , the dry periods longer, the rain less reliable.

How do we adapt?
What changes do we have to make?

Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2023, 07:08:18 pm »
Drink more water, wear lighter clothing? Move to higher ground next week before the sea levels rise.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2023, 03:19:57 pm »
Easy! Find a problem, offer universities billions of dollars in grant money and tax breaks to verify the problem and scare the public.  Then convince the public you need to pass laws to save them so companies can make billions of dollars.  With your kickbacks buy a beautiful multimillion dollar mansion on the shore and have servants care for all the bees you want!  You also may qualify for a nice property tax break for keeping bees on your property.  If not, just pay someone off so you can. Adapting and changing isn't so hard.
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2023, 03:43:46 pm »
Politics of climate change

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Climate change first emerged as a political issue in the 1970s. Efforts to mitigate climate change have been prominent on the international political agenda since the 1990s, and are also increasingly addressed at national and local level. Climate change is a complex global problem. Greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions contribute to global warming across the world, regardless of where the emissions originate. Yet the impact of global warming varies widely depending on how vulnerable a location or economy is to its effects. Global warming is on the whole having negative impact, which is predicted to worsen as heating increases. Ability to benefit from both fossil fuels and renewable energy sources vary substantially from nation to nation."


2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2023, 04:22:45 pm »
Anybody who wants to discuss climate change should first be forced to watch the entire Gold Rush series. After that, they should have to explain how those Wooly Mammoth tusks ended up 60' below the surface and how gold that was once on the surface, ended up as far as 100' below the surface. Then they should have to take a trip to see the Grand Canyon and write an essay on how it was carved and where the water went that carved it and how it got there. After they explain all of that to my satisfaction, we can have a chat.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2023, 06:10:18 pm »
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2023, 08:58:24 pm »
It?s an interesting topic Max. As to where things go and what will happen is any bodies guess. Small changes in climate could create lots of issues for bees and also the mugs who manage them. We look at seasonal variations and tend to notice over time that the bees have the ability to respond. I?m sure there are limits to what they can cope with and quite frankly I would be too scared to research what the potential answers would show us. As beekeepers we live through small scale climate changes every year. Some years are particularly hot and dry while others are wet and cool. These variations obviously impact on what flowers and also the amount of nectar that trees produce. This year (up until recently) was particularly dry. My citrus trees did not flower much at all in the early spring as they usually do but reformed buds and flowered big time a couple of weeks ago. They are still flowering as we speak. That?s a huge change that has occurred due to a natural cycle. Imagine what would happen if the weather patterns changed permanently.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2023, 12:44:39 am »
it might impact the livelihood of beekeepers and all kinds of other keepers.  On the other hand, the honeybee is not native to the US, and we have lots of other pollinators, some of which are struggling because of the overpopulation of honeybees in areas.  Probably not true around the world...

Urban areas have taken a lot of the natural habitat for all kinds of insects.  Monoculture farming has also messed up habitat.  Those might be more immediate dangers.  Bad management spreads disease. Bad breeding weakens lines.

The earth has been warmer in the past both before and after man.  What doesn't adapt, dies, but on the whole, warmer times have been better for people.  Longer growing seasons, less disease. 

No way to know how climate change will impact beekeeping over the long haul, but other than something catastrophic like a sudden poll shift, they seem like resilient critters.  depending on where you are, they will probably do fine and people will continue to keep them.  As far back as our history goes, and as many changes as the earth has endured, people have kept bees.
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2023, 12:37:23 pm »
Quote
KathyP
The earth has been warmer in the past both before and after man.  What doesn't adapt, dies, but on the whole, warmer times have been better for people.  Longer growing seasons, less disease. 

No way to know how climate change will impact beekeeping over the long haul, but other than something catastrophic like a sudden poll shift, they seem like resilient critters.  depending on where you are, they will probably do fine and people will continue to keep them.  As far back as our history goes, and as many changes as the earth has endured, people have kept bees.

Good post Kathy, history and science teaches up that climate change has always been a fact, sometimes naturally and sometimes supernaturally.  I am reminded of Honeybees, and Milk of a land, (the abundance of a land); The Promised Land of Milk and Honey, and the climate change that has happened there in the past 2000 years or so... Some might find the following report of climate change interesting which has effected a land, the bees in it, and its people... (and long before the first car or jet plane..)



0:45
In 2008 this came out scientists began
analyzing the chemical composition of
rings that formed the the stalagmites;
You know in the cave is growing from the.
what's called the "Surat Cave" near
Jerusalem. The rings dated between 200 BC
and 1100 AD. What they found; They found
something happened, they found that the
climate of Israel suddenly changed. When?
In the first century. When? Around the end
part of the first century, like think 70
AD.
The geologists discover the climate
suddenly changes in Israel. How?  The rains dry up.
2:25

3:52
What happened?
The entire land dries up in Israel. More
and more it becomes as a parched
wilderness. The trees are gone, the
flowers are gone, the plants are gone,
because the 'Promised Land' becomes a
desert wilderness. And that, you look at
the Torah, you look in the law what Moses
said got the Covenant; It said that 'will'
happen; The land will become like a
wasteland. It'll become so barren, that I
mean it'll be like cursed. People
will come from far away, they'll pass by
and they'll say, "What has happened to
this land? What has the Lord done to this
land?" It's amazing, because of the 19th
'century literally', you had people
from around the world who made
pilgrimages to the land, at that time
'before the Jewish people came back'. One
of them was Mark Twain, and Mark Twain is
very eloquent. He writes a
thing, he says, (It's amazing), he says, "We
went for miles and miles, and
didn't see a plant, this land is
wasted, it is a barren land." he says,  "But how
can any land prosper with a curse of the
Lord on it?"  And he says that
"exactly", and is for filling Deuteronomy;
They will come by and they'll say that.
5:02

https://youtu.be/nTeezmuYOAU?si=4EpU9NJXyC4cSr3W
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2024, 05:25:05 am »
"Honey yields in the U.S. have been declining since the 1990s, with honey producers and scientists unsure why, but a new study by Penn State researchers has uncovered clues in the mystery of the missing honey."

"The eco-regional soil and climate conditions set the baseline levels of honey production, while changes in land use, herbicide use and weather influenced how much is produced in a given year, the researchers summarized."


Interesting indeed that the paper did not mention other 'obvious clues' which might have been strong contributing factors which might have been 'essential' key ingredients as well as 'major points' in the issue of the change of less honey production, as well as the reason that 'Beekeeping itself' has never been the same here in the United States past that time frame emphasized above. Which could 'directly point' to what may be the most obvious major reason and factor for less honey production as a whole here in the USA. The invasion of the unwelcome 'Varroa Destructor' and the 'viruses' they carry, which breached our borders without invitation was not 'mentioned as a possibility', which entered the United States in the late 1980s, nor was the invasive Small Hive Beetle 'even mentioned' as a possibility, which breached our borders in the 1990s, which in combination turned the beekeeping world and its practices upside down here in The United States, yet neither were 'mentioned even as a consideration', but rather the article more 'readily focused' on the political controversial subject of 'climate change' as one of the main reasons, with herbicides and soil conditions coming in a close second and third...







 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2024, 06:09:49 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2024, 06:20:46 am »
I believe that the varroa mite came from Asia but if I'm wrong please correct me. Where did the SHB come from? I can't understand why China is being protected from the scrutiny it deserves for being the source of many of America's invasive species. The reduction of resources for the bees in the populating areas could well be a factor but how do they compare with the areas that don't have that problem? If the climate hoax is responsible for a drop in production in one region, I would think that it would also be responsible for an increase in productivity in another. On the note of pesticides...DDT was on its way out when my memory comes into play but how did that affect honey production way back when?

Online max2

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2024, 06:53:21 am »
"Honey yields in the U.S. have been declining since the 1990s, with honey producers and scientists unsure why, but a new study by Penn State researchers has uncovered clues in the mystery of the missing honey."

"The eco-regional soil and climate conditions set the baseline levels of honey production, while changes in land use, herbicide use and weather influenced how much is produced in a given year, the researchers summarized."


Interesting indeed that the paper did not mention other 'obvious clues' which might have been strong contributing factors which might have been 'essential' key ingredients as well as 'major points' in the issue of the change of less honey production, as well as the reason that 'Beekeeping itself' has never been the same here in the United States past that time frame emphasized above. Which could 'directly point' to what may be the most obvious major reason and factor for less honey production as a whole here in the USA. The invasion of the unwelcome 'Varroa Destructor' and the 'viruses' they carry, which breached our borders without invitation was not 'mentioned as a possibility', which entered the United States in the late 1980s, nor was the invasive Small Hive Beetle 'even mentioned' as a possibility, which breached our borders in the 1990s, which in combination turned the beekeeping world and its practices upside down here in The United States, yet neither were 'mentioned even as a consideration', but rather the article more 'readily focused' on the political controversial subject of 'climate change' as one of the main reasons, with herbicides and soil conditions coming in a close second and third...
Don't shoot the messenger!
I simply pointed to a paper which I found interesting.
I hope that such research may lift the level of discussion.
From your comments I'm not sure if you have read the paper?
How do SHB's affect honey yields?
Any papers been published on this worth reading?

Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2024, 06:56:49 am »
Don't shoot the messenger!
I simply pointed to a paper which I found interesting.
I hope that such research may lift the level of discussion.
From your comments I'm not sure if you have read the paper?
How do SHB's affect honey yields?
Any papers been published on this worth reading?
I don't view it as him shooting you, Max, I see it as him adding to the discussion. Any more, any time we see an article of almost any sort it has a bias to it and I think it's prudent to address those biases.

Online max2

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2024, 07:02:32 am »
I believe that the varroa mite came from Asia but if I'm wrong please correct me. Where did the SHB come from? I can't understand why China is being protected from the scrutiny it deserves for being the source of many of America's invasive species. The reduction of resources for the bees in the populating areas could well be a factor but how do they compare with the areas that don't have that problem? If the climate hoax is responsible for a drop in production in one region, I would think that it would also be responsible for an increase in productivity in another. On the note of pesticides...DDT was on its way out when my memory comes into play but how did that affect honey production way back when?
Varroa indeed came from Asia.
A. cerana has adapted ( learned to deal with..) varroa. You will find A. Cerana throughout Asia. I have seen them in Cambodia, Vietnam...and yes, China.
SHB  -you can't blame the Chinese for them  :cheesy: - is native the Sub- Saharan area

Online max2

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2024, 07:07:15 am »
Don't shoot the messenger!
I simply pointed to a paper which I found interesting.
I hope that such research may lift the level of discussion.
From your comments I'm not sure if you have read the paper?
How do SHB's affect honey yields?
Any papers been published on this worth reading?
I don't view it as him shooting you, Max, I see it as him adding to the discussion. Any more, any time we see an article of almost any sort it has a bias to it and I think it's prudent to address those biases.
Maybe worthwhile reading the full paper and you will see that it says:
"A lot of factors affect honey production, but a main one is the availability of flowers," she said. "Honey bees are really good foragers, collecting nectar from a variety of flowering plants and turning that nectar into honey. I was curious that if beekeepers are seeing less honey, does that mean there are fewer floral resources available to pollinators overall? And if so, what environmental factors were causing this change?

When you eventuallu own bees you will find out that your bees depend on flowers for their nectar amd pollen.
Flowering is dependant on many factors, one important one being climate.
Have a look at the article I posted elsewhere which explains the flowering of Eucalypts . It is all facinating and there is a lot to learn.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2024, 07:30:56 am »
"Honey yields in the U.S. have been declining since the 1990s, with honey producers and scientists unsure why, but a new study by Penn State researchers has uncovered clues in the mystery of the missing honey."

"The eco-regional soil and climate conditions set the baseline levels of honey production, while changes in land use, herbicide use and weather influenced how much is produced in a given year, the researchers summarized."


Interesting indeed that the paper did not mention other 'obvious clues' which might have been strong contributing factors which might have been 'essential' key ingredients as well as 'major points' in the issue of the change of less honey production, as well as the reason that 'Beekeeping itself' has never been the same here in the United States past that time frame emphasized above. Which could 'directly point' to what may be the most obvious major reason and factor for less honey production as a whole here in the USA. The invasion of the unwelcome 'Varroa Destructor' and the 'viruses' they carry, which breached our borders without invitation was not 'mentioned as a possibility', which entered the United States in the late 1980s, nor was the invasive Small Hive Beetle 'even mentioned' as a possibility, which breached our borders in the 1990s, which in combination turned the beekeeping world and its practices upside down here in The United States, yet neither were 'mentioned even as a consideration', but rather the article more 'readily focused' on the political controversial subject of 'climate change' as one of the main reasons, with herbicides and soil conditions coming in a close second and third...
Don't shoot the messenger!
I simply pointed to a paper which I found interesting.
I hope that such research may lift the level of discussion.
From your comments I'm not sure if you have read the paper?
How do SHB's affect honey yields?
Any papers been published on this worth reading?

Max I find it odd that you would say "don't shoot the messenger".
To be clear, I made no attack upon you as I pointed out more, (and maybe even stronger), possibilities not mentioned in the Penn paper concerning the results of that studiy and its answers related to "the drop in honey production in America since the 1990s".




« Last Edit: January 08, 2024, 10:12:48 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online max2

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2024, 09:33:04 pm »
I believe that the varroa mite came from Asia but if I'm wrong please correct me. Where did the SHB come from? I can't understand why China is being protected from the scrutiny it deserves for being the source of many of America's invasive species. The reduction of resources for the bees in the populating areas could well be a factor but how do they compare with the areas that don't have that problem? If the climate hoax is responsible for a drop in production in one region, I would think that it would also be responsible for an increase in productivity in another. On the note of pesticides...DDT was on its way out when my memory comes into play but how did that affect honey production way back when?
here is an interesting paer on SHB and the connection with climate.
It is a matter of " cause and effect"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/gcb.14791

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2024, 09:53:35 pm »
With my first hive lost to SHB I was curious as to how resourceful the larva really were. My bees were kept on a soil which consist of a few inches of fertile top soil which ends with clay ground from there on. (no sand, no loose dirt. Simply hard clay) I was shocked as to how deep I was finding larva in the hard clay. Once these pest enter a new host country if is impossible to be rid of then at this point with Science. (Unless a breakthrough has been made).

Unfortunately Small Hive Beetles are adaptable and have now spread in many parts of the world with a wide range of climates.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/World-distribution-of-the-small-hive-beetle-Aethina-tumida-The-coleopteran-native_fig2_283860297



2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2024, 10:04:53 pm »
Dr Jamie Ellis is World renown for his research of the dreadful Small Hive Beetle. Here he explains the pest 'in depth' 'in simple layman terms', the ins and out of the SHB including climate. Beemaster2 shared of his personal correspondence with Dr Ellis here at Beemaster a few years concerning Bee College.


Here Dr Ellis explains the pest; Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/vUkFcgf4f6Q







« Last Edit: January 09, 2024, 06:43:49 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2024, 07:59:00 am »
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline AustinB

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2024, 09:45:10 am »
In VA you can shovel snow in November or get a sunburn, so yeah we have a lot of 'climate change' here.
I was able to do some ice fishing a couple years back on a lake that I have never seen freeze before.
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Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2024, 10:01:56 am »
If I'm wrong, let me know and I'll go back and spend a little more time but I have this feature where I get judgmental at first glance and that website that is all green and has all that peripheral garbage moving around makes me click the 'X' in the upper righthand corner tout de suite. I was reading yesterday or the day before that, that TX panhandle was gearing up for a freezing. Oh, and on last week's Gold Rush, someone unearthed a pretty well preserved wooly mammoth calf. How did that get down there?

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2024, 07:48:24 pm »
Let's try and keep this thread bee-focused if possible, everyone.  I understand everyone has their opinions on climate change, and everyone is welcome to voice their opinions, but if it gets too far away from bees or too political, we're going to have to move it to the Coffee House. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2024, 10:59:48 pm »
Thanks for getting the thread back on track Reagan. Please don?t send it to the Coffee House as there could be some interesting points raised that would be lost in that section of the forum. If we go back to what Max was asking initially, there could be clever ideas presented in relation to dealing with hotter days and less reliable rainfall. Some initial thoughts that come to mind would be tackling overheating hive issues, reliable water supplies for bees, examining bee food supplies in relation to nectar and pollen sources. I?m sure that some members would have thoughts on these areas as well as other aspects of bee life that could be discussed in this thread.

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2024, 11:16:05 am »
one of my boys lives in AZ.  It's very hot and dry and to my surprise, there are quite a few beekeepers.  Water is a big thing.  Like most critters, if bees have basics like food and water, they can regulate their environment pretty well.  The hives I saw were not even shaded, although I don't know what is done in the hottest part of summer. 
They get a big bloom with the monsoon rains, but that does not last long so everything that is gathered has to be done in a short period of time unless there are irrigated crops around.
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2024, 11:50:53 am »
Dee Lusby's father-in-law was telling me that when his dad moved all of their hives out of the valley where Tuscon is and moved them up into the hills they never made honey unless there was an obvious water source within a quarter mile.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2024, 02:54:53 pm »
A lot is being able to react to the new variables in the weather. It's not all heat.
Lsat year in North Yorkshire, UK we had heavy rain practically every day during July (usually a peak honey gathering month).
Bees weren't flying and got through their stores and pollen in no time. Had to feed and add previously collected frames of pollen back to hives to keep them alive
Never had to do that in July before, ever.
A lot of nearby keepers lost a lot of colonies to starvation as they weren't on the ball.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2024, 03:15:03 pm by NigelP »

Offline AustinB

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2024, 06:26:51 am »
Quote
What you describe is weather.
This is different:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67861954

I was being entertaining  :wink: I'm well aware of the manufactured crisis of "climate change." After 3 generations of family beekeeping it hasn't changed anything for us.
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2024, 06:47:18 pm »
Quote
"Honey yields in the U.S. have been declining since the 1990s, with honey producers and scientists unsure why, but a new study by Penn State researchers has uncovered clues in the mystery of the missing honey."

"The eco-regional soil and climate conditions set the baseline levels of honey production, while changes in land use, herbicide use and weather influenced how much is produced in a given year, the researchers summarized."

Just my opinion: I lost 2 outstanding gallberry yards last year due to the land being cleared. one for housing the other for a solar farm. The bees had been producing well for years.

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Re: Beekeeping under climate change
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2024, 10:21:16 pm »
It is hitting most countries now.
Extreme in Asia.
I was in cambodia and the heat extremes  are affecting crops
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-27/climate-change-forces-female-students-out-of-the-classroom/103614742

 

anything