Calling any and all Texas Hill Country Beekeepers

[Dora]

If you live in the Texas Hill Country, could you please reply?

This is a unique area for beekeeping. I just got back from my first local Beekeeper meeting and got my hopes dashed of rearing some queens with local genetics to be more adapted to local conditions. Apparently the area is overrun with Africanized drones, and others have tried rearing queens here only to get fierce bees. 😢

I'd just love to know who on here may be from the area.
Is there a search function to find this out??

[Michael Bush]

Start with Africanized bees and then breed from the nicest ones.  Those F1 crosses between AHB and EHB are the vicious ones.

[Dora]

Thanks, Michael. What you suggest was my plan...
BUT ....
At our local meeting, the presenter said that the hives of queens mated with local drones would attack from 20 feet or so away. Several people tried to raise local queens but gave up because of this.

If we tried this, we'd have to move the "local" hives away from the rest, so we could check the other hives without having veils covered with bees!

Do you mean to say that the F2 generation crosses are better?



I'm

[Michael Bush]

Any F1 cross of Apis mellifera tends to bring out aggressiveness.  With a lot of difficulty the Starline program managed to find two lines of Ligustica that were gentle on the F1 cross.  Unfortunately sometimes they got mean on the next (F2) cross but usually not.  Midnite was a program that started with two lines of Caucasian that wouldn't bring out the aggressiveness but that eventually degraded and they had to bring in a line of Carniolans.  When that degraded they brought in another line of Carniolans  Eventually they gave up.  When the first Italian queens (Ligustica) were brought over there were a lot of issues when these would cross with the local wild AMM (Apis mellifera mellifera) and the F1 crosses would be vicious.  When your Italian or other EHB queens make that F1 cross with the local AHB you typically will get unworkable bees.  When the local bees cross with the local bees (AHB) they tend to be hotter than a gentle Italian but usually they are workable.  If you keep trying to keep just Italians or other EHB, buying all your queens, they will supersede on occasion and you'll end up with an F1 cross that's unworkable again.  I'm saying the best way to avoid that is to keep just local bees and raise your own queens so you can easily requeen from nicer local stock as needed.  Try to stay away from either F1 or F2, but yes, the F2 usually are less aggressive than an F1.

[Dora]

If you keep trying to keep just Italians or other EHB, buying all your queens, they will supersede on occasion and you'll end up with an F1 cross that's unworkable again.  I'm saying the best way to avoid that is to keep just local bees and raise your own queens so you can easily requeen from nicer local stock as needed.

Thanks much for the reassurance, Michael. What you suggest is what I had in mind - probably largely due to my reading pretty much all your material. 😉
But your saying

Try to stay away from either F1 or F2, but yes, the F2 usually are less aggressive than an F1.

... is a bit problematic. 🤣 How am I supposed to stay away from those if I raise my own queens!!
I'm just thinking now that we will probably have to set up hives in two separate areas - one for the gentle bees and one for the vicious ones. If I don't let the vicious one supersede, how on earth will I ever get beyond F1, let alone F2?

Have the AHB actually reached your part of Nebraska? If so, when?

Just wondering how much experience you have with these feisty bees. 😉

[The15thMember]

But your saying

Try to stay away from either F1 or F2, but yes, the F2 usually are less aggressive than an F1.

... is a bit problematic. 🤣 How am I supposed to stay away from those if I raise my own queens!!
I'm just thinking now that we will probably have to set up hives in two separate areas - one for the gentle bees and one for the vicious ones. If I don't let the vicious one supersede, how on earth will I ever get beyond F1, let alone F2?

If I'm wrong, Michael please correct me, but I think what Michael is saying is to just keep Africanized bees, and let the vicious ones supersede, even encourage it.  People in Central and South America are now keeping Africanized bees, because there is no other option, and I've heard that their aggressiveness isn't as much of a problem as it used to be, plus they are more varroa resistant.  I don't have any experience with Africanized bees, but based on Michael's information, that says to me that if you can survive them long enough that they are no longer outcrossing with European genetics, they will actually become manageable.  The trouble would be if lots of people in your area are trying to keep pure Europeans, because then your Africanized queen could cross with their drones and the process would start all over again.  I haven't personally read or watched much of her material, but doesn't Dee Lusby keep Africanized descendants?  Or am I confusing her with someone else?   

[Dora]

I haven't personally read or watched much of her material, but doesn't Dee Lusby keep Africanized descendants?  Or am I confusing her with someone else?

Yes, I think you're right about Dee Lusby. Of course, she attributed her success re varroa to her small-cell foundation, but people who visited her apiary remarked that her bees were pretty aggressive. So I'm guessing that her bees likely had some AHB genetics. 😊

[Michael Bush]

>... is a bit problematic. 🤣 How am I supposed to stay away from those if I raise my own queens!!

Start with local bees and let them mate with local bees.  If you want more control over the genetics see if you can get your neighboring beekeepers to use your queens.  (give them away if you need to).   You're assuming that all the AHB are unworkable.  They aren't.  Once you are raising your own queens, if you get a hot one, just put a couple of queens cells in and let it go off as a supersedure.  Then you won't have to find the queen.

>Have the AHB actually reached your part of Nebraska?

No, we don't have AHB.  The time I had unworkable bees they were from Texas and they swarmed.  The next queens emerged and I had vicious bees.  I requeened.  I have worked with AHB in New Mexico, Arizona, Florida, the Virgin Islands and Texas.

>Yes, I think you're right about Dee Lusby.

Dee seems to like to test people by throwing boxes around.  If you treat her bees normally they act pretty normally though some of them are a bit hot.

> Of course, she attributed her success re varroa to her small-cell foundation, but people who visited her apiary remarked that her bees were pretty aggressive. So I'm guessing that her bees likely had some AHB genetics.

Likely they do at this point, but she was handling Varroa before anyone thought there were AHB in Arizona.

[Dora]

Thank you all for your great input! 😊