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Author Topic: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?  (Read 18012 times)

Offline rookie2531

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mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« on: March 28, 2015, 10:03:20 am »
I want to make some mini nucs, but am not sure how to make the transition between getting them from the mini nuc to the regular size nuc. Don't the larvae have to be put in the regular sized nuc too? Sorry if in wrong category, but didn't know if it was a queen or equipment topic.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 06:44:54 pm »
Are you saying "mini nucs" meaning the frames are something other than standard size, or what?  Your question has been opened and read by a lot of people and nobody has answered because maybe nobody understands what you are asking.

Usually a nuc is just a box with fewer frames -- 2, 4, 5 or something -- instead of 8 or 10 frames.  You'd normally use the size frame compatible with the size hive you'll eventually move the bees into.   At least, that's my understanding.  You could use frames that belong in a deep box, for example.

Clarify your question and you'll be more likely to get a bunch of answers.  Some might even agree with the others :shocked:
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Offline Jim134

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 07:37:32 pm »
I want to make some mini nucs, but am not sure how to make the transition between getting them from the mini nuc to the regular size nuc. Don't the larvae have to be put in the regular sized nuc too? Sorry if in wrong category, but didn't know if it was a queen or equipment topic.

      Personally I did not see why anybody that is making under a 100 queens per year what even need mini nucs for queen rearing .Maybe you are bigger than I think you are in beekeeping in that case my answer would be completely different. (stick with standard equipment if you are doing under 100 queens per year )



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Offline sc-bee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 08:34:14 pm »
Are you saying "mini nucs" meaning the frames are something other than standard size, or what?  Your question has been opened and read by a lot of people and nobody has answered because maybe nobody understands what you are asking.

Usually a nuc is just a box with fewer frames -- 2, 4, 5 or something -- instead of 8 or 10 frames.  You'd normally use the size frame compatible with the size hive you'll eventually move the bees into.   At least, that's my understanding.  You could use frames that belong in a deep box, for example.

Clarify your question and you'll be more likely to get a bunch of answers.  Some might even agree with the others :shocked:

Yes he is talking a mini-nuc with mini nuc size frames. I don't know the dimension but they are very small frames about half the size or smaller than a medium. And I have no idea about transfer and I think most folks that sideline use standard equipment. And the nucs are usually to breed the queen remove her, cage her, sale her, or place her. Not to make a transition to other size equipment.
John 3:16

Offline little john

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 08:54:40 pm »
Relieved to hear that someone else didn't quite understand the question being asked. :smile:

Mini-nucs are usually used to get virgin queens mated, and nucs are used to initially 'grow' a small colony - i.e. these boxes are used for quite different purposes, and in my experience it's not usual practice to transfer one over to the other as they have different sized frames.

There is one notable exception to this, and that is the system used by Mike Palmer. Mike has developed a system using half-sized nuc boxes having two configurations. One configuration has normal-sized frames running lengthwise, with the other configuration having frames running transversely - i.e. across the box. In the latter case, the frames are of course much smaller, around half the length of a normal frame. Because the two configurations live in boxes having identical footprints, they can be very easily placed one above the other ... so, for example, a box of bare mating-nuc frames could be easily drawn-out by placing them above an occupied nuc box, and at the end of the season any remaining brood and stores in those mating-nuc frames could be absorbed into a nuc by placing that box underneath it. (Mike doesn't actually do this - but it's what I'll be doing myself later-on this year) A very clever set-up.

Indeed, it's possible to convert the mating-nuc version of the half-sized nuc box into two separate mating nucs by simply inserting a suitable division board. Mike has developed a double-sided feeder which acts as a division board, which can also be moved to one end of the box in order to provide double the space as the nuc begins to grow. All-in-all a very flexible system. If you're planning on making your own kit anyway, then this is a system well-worth considering. There are a couple of YouTube videos showing Mike's system in action, if you Google "Michael Palmer Sustainable Apiary".

LJ
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Offline rookie2531

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 09:10:46 pm »
O.K. Jim, I am thinking of making around 50, with some for sale and extra for myself if they dont make it back from mating.

SC, I was on the thought of maybe being able to make more colonies with less bees so they can keep the brood warm in a smaller space. then transfering them into a 2 or 3 frame regular sized nuc, then a five framer and so on.

thanks for the info. I am thinking about trying a slide in frame. Something like the mini vhs tapes that went into the old recorders and then you would pop them in a regular vhs dummy holder so you could play it in the vcr. That way she will still have her pheromones and brood in the bigger nuc and have better acceptance. That is my thought process anyway.

LJ, thats is a nice idea, if i understand you correctly. Like making mini frame box that will sit on a regular frame box and just let the queen move to those bigger frames and start laying there? I already made some mating nucs out of 10 frame boxes with the dividers. Maybe another couple projects on nthe horizon.

Thanks again to all for your input..

Offline iddee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 10:48:34 pm »
rookie, here's a thread you may want to review. There's a few ideas in itfor what you are asking.

http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,3479.0.html
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline sc-bee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2015, 06:12:36 am »
Mini Nucs are for placing capped queen cell.... because they take very few bees to warm them. As far as starting a colony and grwoing it to full frames from the mini nucs... seems to me you are spinning your wheels. Just go with 2- 5 frame full nics IMHO. But you got it thought out in your head and I may be missing something :)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 12:42:16 pm by sc-bee »
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Offline Jim134

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2015, 08:09:18 am »
rookie2531


        You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find  breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts. This is one of the biggest reasons why you can raise queen bees in your backyard better than most professionals.IMHO mini mating nucs does not have enough room for this.I do hope you the best for your in all your avengers  in beekeeping and I also hope you are a little better educated after have read all the posts.


Remember this is what they told me the ideal time was 28 days.Of interrupted laying of a new queen


                BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 11:12:54 pm by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline OldMech

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2015, 10:50:26 am »
The best option I have seen is to make a standard frame that the mini frames will slide into, then you can place them into a standard hive.  I agree that unless you are trying to make a LOT of queens you really dont need mini mating nucs.  Use three to five frame standard nucs, they do the job well.. they also provide you with extra "worker" comb, bees and brood to add to production hives. Maintaining a few standard size nucs has a lot of advantages.
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Offline sc-bee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2015, 12:40:50 pm »
rookie2531
You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find  breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts.

And do you think commercial queen breeder a or b or c does this. I bet noooot. It would cost them too much money tying up their mating nucs. And you are right that is why should try to raise their own.
John 3:16

Offline rookie2531

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2015, 01:36:35 pm »
rookie2531
You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find  breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts.

And do you think commercial queen breeder a or b or c does this. I bet noooot. It would cost them too much money tying up their mating nucs. And you are right that is why should try to raise their own.

I did Not know that. I always thought it was a week or two. How many backyarders do you think wait for 1.5 months after rearing to do their first inspection?

Offline iddee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2015, 03:17:35 pm »
Jim, as I've said many times, after 40 years of beekeeping. I still learn something new every day. Can you give a link to some info on that waiting period? I've never heard it, and would like to know more about it.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline cao

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2015, 04:02:55 pm »
I hope that Michael Bush doesn't mind me copying this from his web site:

Quality. Nothing is more important to success in beekeeping than the queen. The quality of your queens can often surpass that of a queen breeder. You have the time to spend to do things that a commercial breeder cannot afford to do. For instance, research has shown that a queen that is allowed to lay up until it's 21 days will be a better queen with better developed ovarioles than one that is banked sooner. A longer wait will help even more, but that first 21 days is much more critical. A commercial queen producer typically looks for eggs at two weeks and if there are any it is banked and eventually shipped. You can let yours develop better by spending more time.

It's under his queen rearing section.  I think that I've read it somewhere else too, but I can't remember where.



Offline iddee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2015, 04:34:54 pm »
Yes, I've read that, but I don't remember a link to the ""research"" that determined that.

Also, I go with a dealer here to Ga. to pick up 200 nucs in April. The breeder shakes the bees and picks the queens from the mating nucs the day we get there. They are not banked. I can see where the banking of queens may cause problems, but the laying time factor is what I want more info on.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline sc-bee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2015, 08:05:03 pm »
rookie2531
You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find  breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts.

And do you think commercial queen breeder a or b or c does this. I bet noooot. It would cost them too much money tying up their mating nucs. And you are right that is why should try to raise their own.

I did Not know that. I always thought it was a week or two. How many backyarders do you think wait for 1.5 months after rearing to do their first inspection?

It is not inspection that is meant... it is interrupting the queen laying cycle/pattern as in pull her and putting her in  a cage where she will either sit before shipment and also be caged until you get her releases to your hive. Inspections are fine.
John 3:16

Offline sc-bee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2015, 08:09:00 pm »
Yes, I've read that, but I don't remember a link to the ""research"" that determined that.

Also, I go with a dealer here to Ga. to pick up 200 nucs in April. The breeder shakes the bees and picks the queens from the mating nucs the day we get there. They are not banked. I can see where the banking of queens may cause problems, but the laying time factor is what I want more info on.

You sound like someone on a facebook site that jumped all over me.... give me proof bleh they said. How much of what you do is steeped in beekeeping pass down/ knowledge vs scientific proof id  :wink: Surely we are having some kind of problems if not many with commercial queens. I have yet to find a commercial source I am pleased with...
John 3:16

Offline iddee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2015, 09:36:00 pm »
WHOA, sc. I ain't jumpin' nobody.

I'm just curious if there is some real research on this or if it's just more hand-me-down like you mentioned, or
could it be grafted queens are inferior, or
could it be the banking of queens, or
could it be the mating by drones from the same lines as their mother, grandmothers, and on and on for generations in the same apiary, or
etc. etc. etc.
I just want to read as much about it as I can, since I know nothing about it up to now.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline sc-bee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2015, 09:39:33 pm »
WHOA, sc. I ain't jumpin' nobody.

Naw I did not mean you were id :) Maybe I was not clear...I was just referring to I got jumped on facebook, the conversation thereon fb was a little arrogant and nasty IMHO.....amazing the qualities a keyboard and a little reading brings out in folks miles away you have never met :angry:
John 3:16

Offline iddee

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Re: mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2015, 09:53:11 pm »
Then it wasn't me. I have met you, and you're "almost" as ugly as me.   :angry:   :wink:   :grin:   :grin:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*