Space Travel Alternatives

[beemaster]

Hi Everyone:

I was browsing TV a few nights ago looking for what the different cable networks had to offer. I clicked on the SCI-FI Channel and saw 1) a "Documentary about the UFO Crash at Roswell" and 2) a movie (very loosely) explaining what may have happened around those incidents.

Now... I've always held the belief that the probability of life (of some form) must be out there in the vastness of the Universe. Whether they are "microbial or highly evolved life" is a different matter - I'm talking about "life" in the most basic of terms.

I'm a big reader of Sci-Fi stuff (both fact and fiction actually) and just crunching the number, it seems impossible that "At some point in the history of the Universe" that life could not have existed many many times over. With billions and even trillions of stars in our "relatively small" Milkyway Galaxy and the fact that there are countless Trillions of Galaxies of all shapes and sizes, it just seems TOO BIG to NOT have all the building blocks of life out there.

We've talked about religion and personally I think of the Bible as being ONE of mans Owners/Operators Manuals - but as BigRog pointed out "God is too big for just ONE religion" and I think that a profound statement. In this post, I take that one step further and say the Bible is just one of HUMANS Owner/Operators Manuals and I believe that such books exists everywhere in the Universe, serving as a template for all creatures who have spiritual conscienceness.

That being said, and I know that probably offends a bunch of people (but I hope that no-one is here) JUST for popularity reasons. I think a God that has created such a unconceivably stretch of space, wouldn't do it JUST so we have stars to look at at night - that seems so foolish that to me. But the shear fact that the Universe is so large and so old, that it CHIEFLY explains the possibility that "Other Life Forms" have either rarely or never visited our planet.

When you add the the important issues, planet development and species development, throw in the age of the Universe and the vast distances that must be traveled, and you quickly see that "With the limits of our rather humble technology" visiting other systems is NOT a realistic goal. I truly believe that the FIRST long distance travel will not be a physical voyage, rather a conscience one - an Out of Body jaunt around the galaxies.

Unless there is a major Paradgym Shift in our current way of measuring space travel, there is little to no need for humans to seek out other civilizations in person. I imagine there is a GREATER possibilty of alien life finding us then US finding them, at least in the imaginable future.

But as mentioned in a post a few days ago, we are making leaps and bounds in human advancement through technology. We couldn't have imagined the modern day marvels a century ago and I'm sure we can't image those just available decades from now. Our creating a means to travel great distances in short periods of time is a probability I believe, not just a Star Trek fans drooling aspirations.

But let's say (for argument sake) that RIGHT NOW there are 1 trillion civilizations at least as advanced as we are, all spread equally as far from each other in space. No one having the means to even communicate, let known visit the other - and all "in the dark" about the others existance. That makes a very crowded Universe a very lonely place.

Now, throw away all the life forms which can NEVER evolve into space traveling beings, also toss humans in the pile along with the beings who are centuries away from deep space travel and "importantly" factor in the TIME ISSUE - that is, how many societies can manage deep space travel BEFORE it destroys itself along the way? Again, creating vessels capable of long distance travel is the NORMAL CONCEPTION of what happens; it may be the "image put into our heads" from reading too many comic books, but so far ALL of our Space Vehicles have spookily resembled those in the pages of Marvel Comics.

I think we need to get away from the SHIP conception and start looking for ways to send the spiritual/conscience being rather than the physical body into space - I think it is likely that our conscienceness is THE ONLY THING we have in common with other species any way! And if Out of Body Experience tells us anything, it is the only means to travel seemlessly in and out of time.

I know, what the "firetruck" are you talking about now Beemaster???!!! If you have ever read my www.beemaster.com/obe.html page you will have greater insight to where I am going with this. But our goverments spent billions of dollars during the Cold War trying to master OBE travel in "Think Labs" filled with men trying to "project" themselves into the war-rooms of the enemy. Even today major strides have been made and I'm sure many more billions are being spent to understand the relationship of the mind and body.

We are getting close to separating the two at will - it's not magic, it is science and there is a definite connection in the Angular Gyrus section of the brain. I hope everyone agrees that we are conscience creatures living in a physical body - I think most religions agree with that, although they may say it very differently. I believe 100% that the body is just a vessel for the human spirit, and the spirit is the real child of God, not the body.

If God created the Universe and I believe that is so - and it is filled with life, I have to assume there is a common thread and our "bodies" are just "adaptable vessels" which change in order to sustain life in our eviroment. The spiritual (and I still perfer Conscience being - it seems to offend less people, although I think there is no difference between conscience and spirit) but the spiritual being lives outside the body after death and when trama or purposeful or unintentional efforts are made to stimulate the separation of the two - the the conscience can leave the body safely and return at will.

So space travel, or the meeting of like creatures seems to me to be a conscience event, not a physical one and I think "that" GREATLY reduces the need for technology and the stress on humans - at least THAT is where I hope we start spending money, it surely sounds cheaper.

SO THE QUESTION IS:

Have you ever had a strange or unexplainable event in your life? Ever see anything you can't explain, and don't let it stop at UFOs: this includes ghosts, and other strange events. I think MOST people have had stuff happen that defies common logic, but as I mentioned in that same previous post - just because you can't understand something, doesn't mean it can't be explained.


I'll post later a few interesting events in my life, just to hear your opinions on them. I wish I could say I had seen a UFO, I had not, but my Mother, Brother and a Friend all share an interesting experience which I'll detail soon.

[beemaster]

MORE ON SPACE TRAVEL

It's rewarding to see a response to my post

I've wondered many times at whether reality STARTS when we awake, or if the "REAL WORLD" is just a LUCID DREAM continuing at our own need to validate the need to be PLANTED somewhere: a world that could be nothing more than a contrive of our imagination.

Think about it, in dreams we agree with the most absurd scenarios - telling ourselves "Go ahead and fly or walk through walls, It's okay... it's just a dream." Anything is possible and we easily excuse events that defy our own understanding of the laws of science.

But in what we call the "Real World" is a place with unspeakable horrors and unimaginable creatures that challenge anything every written or drawn in science fiction tales: we except this world though - the only difference being, we play by rules in this world. In the dream world, we allow our brains to accept everything, in a waking state we apply rules. Honestly, except for THAT single difference in how we PLAY the game - I don't see how either world couldn't be a creation of the mind.

Imagine if "everything" were real (unreal) or both. Think about how disconnected you are when alone in the house with no media playing. The world outside your walls are very detached from your conscience awareness - you assume it is there and when you exit the door, all the "rules" apply, so you believe it HAS to be the real world and not something created to comfort your mind. Note the difference: if you were to walk out the door and fly away, you would simple state you are dreaming and then take the appropriate actions to reconnect to the REAL world.

I know of many times I have fallen back to sleep and was not aware that I wasn't awake and about doing the stuff that I would be doing if awake. Then, snap awake and slowly put the pieces together until it made sense and then continue on with the world that played by the rules. It is ONLY when the rules DON'T apply that you know you are dreaming - that is a small and thin tether holding us to this world. If our dreams DID play by the waking world rules, we would have ZERO reference to differentiate the two worlds.

I even wonder if MY RULES and YOUR RULES are the SAME RULES. Do each of us really see the world the same? Isn't insight (whether through education or experience) almost magical or clairvoyant compared to the uninformed laymen? When a doctor looks at a seriously injured victim in a car accident, doesn't he see that patient differently than the victim's untrained spouse? Just think of people who read music, speak multiple languages, know morse code and play instruments - do they see the world the same as the unknowing - I can't imagine how people don't see that we are all differently informed about the world around us.

Some of us see wisdom in the eyes of a dog or mystery in a cat's eyes, but we view our coworkers as brainless zombies placed as obstacles between us and retirement. The perception of reality is interesting to say the least.

I agree that validation is necessary and if Hollywood has shown us nothing else, they have proven that video and sound surely hold no evidence in them. In a time when ANYTHING can be created on the big screen with enough time and money, it is hard to just come back with photos any more. Even the Mars missions are compromised in the minds of conspiracy buffs - which I must say describe MANY of us here icon_eek.gif

Honestly, what could we bring back that would satisfy the population of our doubting planet? I assume LIFE is the only real evidence that we could return with, but even THAT will not be sacred for to long with ability to juggle DNA at our finger tips. Nope, evidence might be hard.

Everyone remember in the movie the Mars Chronicles when the lady tells her husband "Don't be silly dear, everyone knows there is too much oxygen on Earth to support life!" To me, that has always been one of Sci-Fi's great lines. We all think that the Universe is full of creatures that (given enough time and the right material) would build great spaceships and explore the galaxies JUST like we strive to do.

Or the LAZY MANS version, put a big strobe light on top of the planet and hope someone finds us - lol. Of course, if they truly did think like us, they would assume that the strobe light was a buoy and steer away from this obscure little planet. Then you have to think that "If we are the only life out there" then The Universe is truly an amazing waste of space and God has a very limited imagination. It all keeps going back to the TIME LINE issue and where we "are" relative to all other life before and after us.

Now... Conscience travel moves us closer to the String Theorists who claim anywhere from 10 to a gazillion different simultaneous existences with as many Universes and time-lines to match.

The physical body can not get us anywhere besides where it can travel in a life time - if we can agree on that statement, we are heading in the right direction. So what is left is finding a way to travel in the conscience world and THAT takes us back to the original post.

I also agree that no one is going to buy the idea that anyone traveled across the Universe in a Jodi Foster kinda conscience travel in Contact - although I tend to agree that her experience is pretty much what I think must happen: although I hope that WE can create the technology, not have it pseudo-emailed to us from "Out there" using radiowaves.

It really could be as SIMPLE as an electrical probe touching a part of the brain and LEARNED control of the experience. Documentation of the events should indeed be the goal - but how different is THAT, than our inability to document what coma patients experience - we know comas exist, isn't their existance proof enough?

I believe that OBE Travel will ITSELF be the proof. When it becomes common place (as common as the use, benefits and fast acceptance of viagra type drugs) in our society, then people use and believe the experience and accept change fairly quickly - especially if it benefits them.

When the mastery of "conscience separation" and the control of the conscience movement becomes common place, we will all be travelers, and no matter what the experience (whether it is to the fars ends of space and time, or to "melt" into the great cosmic particle ooze, or rejoin the departed family chain through some DNA attraction RULE which we currently know nothing about, OR to walk with God - the conscience being is about to see an INDIVIDUALISTIC split from the body and once the technology is understood, it will seem as it has ALWAYS been that way. Even now it is hard to imagine a world without the internet - to the teens of the world, no such world ever existed.

[Jerrymac]

That star on the far left on Orions belt.... Well I've been there. Not really, but suppose I had in the OBE. First off who would believe it? Really what was your reaction when you read that? Be truthful now. Immediatly dismissed because Jerrymac said it? Probably.
Secondly one could not gather anything and bring it back with them like what's her face did Freddy Cruger. Couldn't even take pictures and email them to your friends. What would the human race gain from such space travel? Now granted if one encountered a higher intelegence and was able to gain some knowledge from them, that might help.

[Horns Pure Honey]

I say if there can be life on this planet there can be life on others. I am not saying we have martians but I am saying there has to be a univers set up somewhat like ares some where out there to have life on it.

[ayyon2157]

I used to communicate with unseen entities through a variation on the "pendalum method" wheredy my right arm muscle would jerk to indicate a "yes" answer, with sometimes a violent eye blink for emphasis.

     Now, I just more pay attention to the first thought to appear in my mind, and ask "the arm" to verify.

     Anyway, seemingly separate entities used to communicate in this way, one of which called herself "ky".  Ky claimed to have last lived "in the flesh" on a planet whose sun is visible to the naked eye from earth, and that my physical body could not survive in her enviorment, and that she could not have survived in mine.

ayyon2157