How Can A Hive Take such a quick dive

[snispel]

3 Weeks ago the hive was booming. Today, there's hardly any bees. The ones in the cells have several that are dead...some have tongues hanging out. I found a hive beetle a couple weeks ago and switched to beetle base board today. There were 3 medium supers almost all full and looked great and normal. I found the queen. She's hasn't been laying very many eggs. When I flipped out the screened bottom board with the beetle board, I saw several culled larvae. The tray under the screen has a beeswax/oil "glue" on it and there are barely any mites and it's pretty clean. Is there too few bees to take care of brood?

This is in SE Nebraska.

I removed 2 of the honey supers, thinking they couldn't take care of so many resources. That leaves them with the brood box and one super.

Any ideas? I'd add photos, but who can see anything with a 200K limit?

[TheHoneyPump]

dead bees in cells with tongues hanging out.  lots of resources.  scattered brood. A large productive hive with a seemingly abrupt population loss (abscond). Lots of resources.  A laying queen (sometimes) .... all those things are symptoms of PMS parasitic mite syndrome.  Not just mites, but culmination of the ailments that come with them. aka CCD - colony collapse disorder.
If you have not done any mite sampling or treatments for it, strongly suggest you do so.  The hive may already be a complete loss, dead bees walking.

[van from Arkansas]

A copy and paste from another post on this forum: note the highlight in red about mite growth.


Bob, splitting or letting hives naturally swarm are excellent tools to reduce mite loads.  A hive is deprived of capped brood for about 3 weeks when a swarm occurs.  We know mites change their physiology when capped brood is absent.  This change in physiology occurs again when brood is about to be capped but it takes the mites time to adjust to reproduction mode.  All the while 1-2 percent of mites are eliminated daily.  Mite drop by bees grooming, mites are carried off into the field, all said about 1-2 percent reduction of mites takes place naturally after a swarm occurs and there is no capped brood for mite reproduction.  Also mites are carried of by the swarm itself.

So natural swarming is an excellent was to reduce mite loads.  Recap:

1.  Natural mite drop 1-2 percent per day
     A.  Without capped brood the mites attach you the bees, some bees with mites attached leave the hive never to return.
     B.  Again, bees leave the hive with mites and mites just fall of the bees.
2.  Natural grooming causes the mites to fall off the bees.
3.  A change in mite reproduction physiology takes place if no capped brood is present.  When brood is available, this upgrade in reproduction physiology takes time.
4.  No capped brood for 3 weeks after a swarm.  Mites cannot reproduce without capped brood.

So swarming by bees is an excellent, natural method for reducing mite load in a hive.  Splitting a hive produces similar results if the split is to raise its own queens, again causing a period with absence of capped brood.

Mites double every 3 weeks in a hive with capped brood.  A critical point of about 7.8 mites per hundred bees, rounded to 8 percent is the critical point for Spring hive collapse.  Any mite level above 8 percent during warm months is cause for collapse in the future.

Mites above 8 percent will double to 16 percent in 3 weeks, 32 percent in 6 weeks, 64 percent in 9 weeks.  By 12 weeks the mites easily collapse the hive at 128 percent, more mites than bees.  However the hive actually collapses before the 128 percent is reached.

Same scenario with 1 percent mite rate:

Starting with one percent mite per hundred bees; remember mites double every 3 weeks.
3 weeks later, 2 percent
6 weeks later, 4 percent
9 weeks later, 8 percent
12 weeks later, 16 percent mite level compared to 128 percent.  That is a lot difference.

So Mr. Bob, if a hive swarms and subsequent mite load is reduced below critical points the hive can prosper.  I admire the goal to be treatment free.  You got my support.

[snispel]

This hive was split early July. It made a new queen and appeared to be rebounding. There was little evidence of mite load prior to splitting. It just occurred to me, 3 weeks ago, however, I did experiment with adding a pollen trap for a week. I wondered if that did something because since then, it has been declining.

[Ben Framed]

This hive was split early July. It made a new queen and appeared to be rebounding. There was little evidence of mite load prior to splitting. It just occurred to me, 3 weeks ago, however, I did experiment with adding a pollen trap for a week. I wondered if that did something because since then, it has been declining.

Pollen is a key 🔑 ingredient in bee reproduction. What type plan did you have for your pollen trap collection? Example:  Did you collect pollen for a certain amount of time each day? All day? Several days consistory? etc. With those examples, what was your pollen collection plan?

[Acebird]

This hive was split early July. It made a new queen and appeared to be rebounding.

You live in NE, you split a hive in July, and you took their honey.  Now you are asking what went wrong?  Gee IDK.

[Robo]

It made a new queen and appeared to be rebounding.

Walk away split?  Emergency queen?   Fall failure of emergency queens is quite common in NE.

[snispel]

It was a walk away split. When I experimented with the pollen trap, it gathered about 1/2 cup on the first day and then the bees seemed to divert to the upper entrance. I took it off after a week and put the robber screen back on. At that time they had 3 full deep frames of pollen in the brood box. Currently, they still have 2. I was hoping that I could use it to make patties for any hive that needed it in the spring.

So, it seemed they had everything they needed. At that time, 2 boxes of honey, 3 frames of pollen, 4 frames to lay brood.

A week ago when I saw a SHB, I switched the hive to a screened bottom board with a sticky tray. Maybe that change was not the right plan as well. But I thought maybe the tray had a chance of trapping the beetle while I acquired a beetle bottom board.

[Ben Framed]

In that case you may consider reply 1 carefully. With number 2 as added information. I am not discounting the other replies as they are good honest replies. just focused on 1 and 2 for what you have described in this situation. Just my opinion.

[van from Arkansas]

Ms. Snispel, can you take a photo of a brood frame, reduce to 599 X 599 to post.  I expect to see white specks on inner top of the open cells.   Kinda looks like a speck of salt, but smaller.  The white specks are Varroa mite dropping.  You will not see the mites, they are hidden, very shy of light and tiny.  All hives have mites.

[van from Arkansas]

https://mountainsweethoney.com/why-do-beekeepers-see-bee-colonys-die-this-time-of-the-year/


Article titled:  Why do beekeepers see colony loss this time of year.  Just published today.  Hope this helps.

[snispel]

I can't get a very good pic with such small resolution.

[Ben Framed]

After blowing the picture up, I did not see mite droppings, I did see plenty larvae in-between capped brood. She must be laying plenty eggs, at least in this picture. Are some of the other frames the same?

If not for the lack of bees. Hum. 

Time for the big guns to chime in. lol

[Ben Framed]

Actually, after going back for a second look all cells which are not capped look to have larva. Ms Queen can't do better than that? 

Again it's time for those with more experience than me. 

[Ben Framed]

To bad as you mentioned, we could not have a better picture. After going back a third time I am second guessing what I am, or am not seeing lol.  There may be mite dropping on the outer ring of the open cells. I really can't tell. Mr Van described what to look for, if mites. Do as he suggest and see for yourself what is there or not there. Mr HoneyPump made a wonderful Class AAA presentation (along with great pictures), for his bee club. Featuring our very own The15Member and her loss of a hive due to mites. I would suggest checking that out.

[TheHoneyPump]

Tilt the top bar of a frame away from you, with the sun at your back.  Look at the top sides of the cells.  Are they clean and smooth or full of salt specs.  Look at a frame that had brood, not one that has brood.  The has brood will have had the cells polished by bees before new eggs and larvae put in.  The had brood will not be polished yet, and if mites are present you will see the fras (mite poop) that looks like salt grains along the top sides of the cells when the top bar of the frame is tilted away from you.
Hope that is clear, hope that helps, I cannot describe any better than that.

[Acebird]

It made a new queen and appeared to be rebounding.

Walk away split?  Emergency queen?   Fall failure of emergency queens is quite common in NE.

Why just NE?  I am all for walk away splits and emergency queens but never in July in our hemisphere.

[van from Arkansas]

Mite frass: top row, 3rd cell from the right.  Just so yo know what to look for.  The frass is in sunlight.

Modify:  Phil, pointed out the speck I am calling mite frass might actually be a bee foot.  Upon extra scrutiny and looking very close, Phil, BenFramed might be correct.  Thanks Phil.