Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?  (Read 3278 times)

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 04:10:36 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline jtcmedic

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 535
  • Gender: Male
    • Sweetest sting honey
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2020, 07:18:34 am »
He has a good pod cast Beekeeper?s corner  I enjoy while mowing, he has been dealing with this hive for a while. Was a good listen

Offline Robo

  • Technical
  • Administrator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 6778
  • Gender: Male
  • Beekeep On!
    • Bushkill Bee Vac
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2020, 07:29:55 am »
A friend had a very similar issue with a hive last year here in NY and ended up having to euthanize it.   I believe tests came back as negative for AHB.   I have had some nasty hives through the years but nothing close to that.   He is a member here, let me see if he can join the conversation.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline Troutdog

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2020, 09:03:49 am »
The queen was not african, in fact marked. The hive was quite a bit more aggressive than the one in the video.
PHD Medhat Nasr who was in the yard said they were the worst aggressive bees he's ever seen. That's says a lot if you know Medhat. He's been around the world studying bees several times including Mexico and Brazil.
The queen in my hive was dark like a carni but had mahogany stripes.
The apiary is less than mile away from a truck stop on NYS thruway. I suspect it was a swarm that moved in and I marked the queen when I inspected it as a small colony.

If my hive was a 10 what you saw was about a 7.
Honestly I was scared when trying to euthanize and too cheap to want to throw out all the comb by using gas.

The day I took them out with a vacuum I had so many stings on Vail venom was forming droplets and rolling down.
I counted 300 stings on the front of one leg and quit counting.
I had to vacuum off the veil every minute ir so to see what I was doing.

The  african genetic is something we can live without.
Yet treatment free loonies are mating VSH with confirmed AHB.
This is gonna be fun to watch. SPam DisComfort is selling his queens through the valley bee store. Lol our valley has a low bee IQ and will no doubt result in more queen sales for me.
My fear is also for those who bought queens from California. A large breeder had his mating area infected by a fla pollinator who illegally set up shop in the heart of his area for mating.
This breeders queens were rejected by Canadians when stock was tested at the border for AHB. 70K QUEENs sent to the compost pile.
So good news is pure AHB cant live in north. Hybrids can.
Everything is good until you get 20 plus seams of bees and then they become antifa jihadists.

Like I said it is no joke.
Identifying
Runny on comb
Cant stay on comb ...fall off
Mahogany stripes on Q
Look for perimeter flying out 100'-200'.
Windshield stinging.
Excessive aggressive behavior
DOES NOT RESPOND TO SMOKE
Gets worse as population increases.

KILL as soon as possible it gets more dangerous the longer you wait. Requeening mostly never works.finding the queen is tricky when under attack at this level.
I made splits with new q cells all had zero success. I used mated qs and all were rejected.

Report the seller to state ag and markets so they can trace origin and help breeder clean up as well as figure out depth of infestation in your area.

That's all I know
Wear many layers of clothing and gloves

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13526
  • Gender: Male
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2020, 10:14:50 am »
That was one mean hive. I had one years ago that unloaded on me when I opened it up.  Sent everyone one running. I was able to calm that one down with the 10 minute and 30 second rule smoke method.
If I had that hive I would euthanize that hive also.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2020, 11:23:00 am »
Good informative post Troutdog. I am assuming this was your video?  I watched a special about a fellow in Arizona I think his name was Reese, about (killer bees). This man and his crew removes AHB hives there. This video reminded me of that documentary.

>Quote
The  african genetic is something we can live without.
Yet treatment free loonies are mating VSH with confirmed AHB.

I wish they would not do this trout. It seems to me the Crossong of AHB lessons, should have been learned from the original experiment done in South America that has resulted in the Africanized bee in the first place.  I do not think this bee needs help in spreading, what are these breeders thinking? Goodness... 😊

I am of the opinion that killing the hive was a good idea. You surely don?t want any more drones produced from such a hive.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline GeorgiaBeeKeeper

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Gender: Female
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2020, 11:32:19 am »
I saw this video too - I am so appreciative of him sharing his experience. 

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2020, 11:58:00 am »
I saw this video too - I am so appreciative of him sharing his experience.

GeorgiaBeeKeeper, are there AHB in your state of Georgia?

Edit I fount the following and placed in the next post.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 12:57:44 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2020, 12:38:38 pm »
For new beekeepers who may not yet know.



GEORGIA DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

Africanized honey bees - sensationalized and labeled "killer bees" by Hollywood hype - are a sub-species of the honey bee (Apis mellifera). What we commonly call the "European honey bee" is actually three sub species, Apis mellifera ligustica (or the Italian bee), Apis mellifera carnica (the Carniolan honey bee), and Apis mellifera mellifera, the dark bee of northern Europe and brought to North America in colonial times. Africanized honey bees are the result of honey bees brought from Africa (Apis mellifera scutellata) to Brazil in the 1950s in hopes of breeding a bee better adapted to the South American tropical climate. These honey bees reached the Brazilian wild in 1957 and then spread south and north until they officially reached the United States on October 19, 1990.

Africanized and European honey bees are similar in that they:

*look the same.
*sting in defense of themselves or their nest.
*can only sting once.
*have the same venom.
*pollinate flowers.
*produce honey and wax.
 

Africanized honey bees will live about anywhere they can find shelter. This means that the Africanized honey bee is more likely to be found in trees, in the sides of buildings, in drain pipes, in water meter valve boxes, in old abandoned appliances, in piles of junk, and even in holes in the ground.

In addition, Africanized honey bees:

respond more quickly and more bees sting.
can sense a threat from people or animals 50 feet or more from their nest.
sense vibrations from power equipment 100 feet or more from nest.
may pursue a perceived enemy 1/4 mile or more.
swarm frequently to establish new nests.
nest in smaller cavities and sheltered areas.
move their entire colony readily (abscond) if food is scarce.
 

Africanized honey bees are very protective of their colony. If someone gets too near a hive, some bees may become disturbed and react by stinging them. A problem with Africanized honey bees is that they will defend a larger area around their colony, are more easily disturbed, and will respond in greater numbers once an intruder has been detected. To be safe, students should stay away from areas where they have seen groups of bees.
Why are Africanized honey bees called "killer bees"?

Although a good part of this reputation is due to Hollywood and press sensationalism, people and animals have died after stinging incidents. Africanized honey bees - and all honey bees - will sting when their nest is threatened by invaders. However, African bees defend their nests with less provocation, in greater numbers and for longer distances than their cousins, the more docile European honey bees that we have in the U.S.

Are Africanized honey bees in Georgia?

Although we believe it is unlikely that Africanized honey bees (AHB) are established in Georgia, we cannot state this with 100% certainty. Africanized honey bees were determined to be established in several central Florida counties in 2005. From 2005 to 2010, the Georgia Department of Agriculture deployed traps to capture swarms along the Georgia - Florida border. Although several swarms were captured, none were identified as Africanized.

However, on October 21, 2010, a 73-year-old man in Dougherty County died from numerous bee stings he received after disturbing a feral (or wild) bee nest. Laboratory tests later determined the bees were Africanized. The Department sampled over 100 bee colonies in and around Dougherty County and identified two additional managed hives that laboratory tests indicated were Africanized. In 2011, an Africanized colony was found in Bainbridge. However, no additional feral (or wild) colonies or swarms have been detected in the state.

What role can beekeepers play?

Managed bee hives are our best defense against Africanized honey bee establishment. Nature does not like vacuums and without the European honey bee strain in an area, AHB are free to become established. Beekeepers that manage hives are best trained determine if AHBs are in an area. Key behaviors that indicate AHBs are in an area include:

Frequently finding small swarms
Bees nesting in odd areas
Finding managed colonies that have been taken over by AHB

How can I identify Africanized Honey Bees?
Africanized honey bees are not giant bees with deadly stings. The AHB is slightly smaller than our domestic bee, but it takes a laboratory test to measure the difference. A single AHB sting is no more venomous than a single European bee sting. The most important difference is in their behavior. Africanized honey bees produce more offspring, defend their nests much more fiercely and in greater numbers and are more likely to abandon the nest (abscond) when threatened by predators or adverse environmental conditions.

Africanized honey bees will often build a nest in man-made cavities or in the open while European honey bees need a larger volume nesting site, and tend to nest in hollowed tree cavities.

Africanized honey bees nesting sites include:

water meter boxes
grills
exposed tree branches
boxes

What do I do if I suspect my hive is Africanized?

Your queens should be marked. Re-queen any colony that is unacceptably defensive or contains an unmarked queen and use only queens from a known European source. The hive may need to be depopulated if the bees are too defensive.
 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 12:52:30 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 410
  • Gender: Female
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2020, 01:33:56 pm »
Made me want to cry [and I know the owner felt the same]  but I would have done the same thing. This was very interesting - thanks so much for posting

Offline Troutdog

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2020, 11:25:08 am »
am assuming this was your video

No not my video. That was not even a consideration at the time. It was life or death. Mine or theirs.lol
Laugh now but that was my worst bee experience ever.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2020, 11:39:04 am »
> It was life or death. Mine or theirs.lol
Laugh now but that was my worst bee experience ever.

HAA HAA I understand!!  When I was a boy I was helping my uncle with some little black bees he had acquired in a remote location which were in wood duck boxes. He was helping the officials remove the bees for the benefit of the ducks. Those little black bees were awful! I knew nothing about bees but learned fast about those little black bees. lol I had not messed with bees since until I did my first cutout a couple years ago. Trout, where are you located?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Honeyeater

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2020, 08:51:06 pm »
Although it seems we have every other creature here in Australia that wants to bite and sting you, we do not have any Africanised bees here. Phew....

Was on the Flow forum and an American lady that experienced AHB, said these in the video are not Africanised in their behaviour. This is what she said:

Those are not Africanized in their behaviour. I have had 2 hives which were definitely africanized. His was a bleep cat by comparison.
First of all, his hood was not zipped up for the first 3 or 4 minutes. With our hives, they would have been inside easily in that time. Also, no way you could wear ordinary trousers, socks etc. My husband had 50+ stings in his socks from ours. You would not be able to continue with that.


I don't know,  am I right in assuming that they are not always 100% Africanised depending on genes' mixture?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 09:26:57 pm by Honeyeater »

Offline Troutdog

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2020, 09:23:01 pm »
All bees are african.
Her point is correct that wasn't bleep compared to my experience

That was bad but not lethal.
My bees were lethal. They were stinging windshield wipers tires etc.
You could not drive closer than 200 ft before they attacked truck.

I had sweat pants over canvas jeans inside a full length suit.
I had 2 long sleeve tee shirts a shirt sleeve tee.
A towel around my neck
My jacket veil is made by same company as full suite I 2x veiled with jacket on top of battle suit.
2 pairs gloves  kit inside thick mid arm cowhide.
Oh yeah it was 92 degrees and I was in the sun.

See what I'm saying?
He would not have lasted long at my gig as he was prepared.

Retrospect.....
Vacum is great idea but theres a catch make sure you put a very very long hose on output.
Blowing alarm pheromone around the apiary surely got other hives involved.
I filled up a contractor size vac unit 16 gal up to half way up the filter at top. That's a few more than I expected. Prob over 120k in bees.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Offline Honeyeater

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2020, 09:25:56 pm »
All bees are african.


Aren't they European?

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2020, 09:59:31 pm »
Trout, i want no part of what you experienced!  :smile:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Troutdog

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2020, 10:21:25 pm »
Trout, i want no part of what you experienced! 
Me either
If everyone experienced this they would never import bees again.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Offline Troutdog

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2020, 10:28:55 pm »
The best part of the story I never explained.........
How a hive becomes african.
They swarm about the size of a grapefruit. They land on the side of a hive and their foragers beg entrance to hive. The hive lets em in one by one. These are like sleeper cells. When the foragers are in hive they find and kill the original queen and bring in their queen who now rules.
This is an amazingly intelligent strategy for an insect.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2020, 11:14:19 pm »
The best part of the story I never explained.........
How a hive becomes african.
They swarm about the size of a grapefruit. They land on the side of a hive and their foragers beg entrance to hive. The hive lets em in one by one. These are like sleeper cells. When the foragers are in hive they find and kill the original queen and bring in their queen who now rules.
This is an amazingly intelligent strategy for an insect.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Yes very intelligent strategy. There is much to learned by observing animals in nature, including the amazing bee.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12627
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2020, 01:28:53 am »
Quoting Troutdog

>The  african genetic is something we can live without.
Yet treatment free loonies are mating VSH with confirmed AHB.
This is gonna be fun to watch. SPam DisComfort is selling his queens through the valley bee store. Lol our valley has a low bee IQ and will no doubt result in more queen sales for me.
My fear is also for those who bought queens from California. A large breeder had his mating area infected by a fla pollinator who illegally set up shop in the heart of his area for mating.
This breeders queens were rejected by Canadians when stock was tested at the border for AHB. 70K QUEENs sent to the compost pile.
So good news is pure AHB cant live in north. Hybrids can.
Everything is good until you get 20 plus seams of bees and then they become antifa jihadists. <



From what I understand all bees form Africa are not the same, not all are aggressive. The reason I say, and if I remember correctly, reading the history of Brother Adam, who searched high and low, (including Africa), looking for and gathering, bees to cross, finally coming up with the Buckfast bee which is still a legend honey bee.  I do not know what bee from Africa the scientist were experimenting with in South America when they came up with the (killer) bee. Now referred to as the Africanized bee.

Troutdog, perhaps the African bees that you are referring to as being experimented and crossbreed is one of the gentler stocks form Africa? I hope they are not using the South American Bee, the (Killer Bee), in their quest for a varroa resistant bee?

ie.
Thanks Mr Van for telling me of Brother Adam and his Buckfast bee here on Beemaster a couple years ago. Researching Brother Adam and his bees was very interesting.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Troutdog

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Re: Africanized Bees In New Jersey? Something else?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2020, 09:28:07 am »
All I know is the Ahb we get here in the States is one heck of a problem.
I don't know what species from Africa they brought to Brazil but it was a typical man knows best experiment.

My point is why would you want to incorporate that mess into our genetic stock here.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


 

anything