Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Acebird on February 19, 2016, 02:14:11 pm
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If a swarm left with a virgin queen how long can the colony wait before it will no longer be accepted back into the parent hive? This assumes the virgin did not make it back from a mating flight.
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I would not expect a virgin to be laying much before two weeks have passed. By then I think you'll need a newspaper combine.
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If a swarm left with a virgin queen how long can the colony wait before it will no longer be accepted back into the parent hive? This assumes the virgin did not make it back from a mating flight.
I am confused. Are you talking about a mating flight, or an actual swarm? If she mated and came back, no problem. If they swarmed, not sure why you would expect them back?
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Kathy, some say a virgin queen will make her mating flight after the swarm has landed. He is asking what happens if she is lost then.
Others say when a virgin leaves with a swarm, she is bred by the time they settle. In that case, his question would never happen.
It just depends on who you believe.
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Oh wow, you got to love beekeepers. Is there no such thing as a virgin leaving with a swarm? It makes it tough for us newbies if you experts can't agree on what actually happens.
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Is there no such thing as a virgin leaving with a swarm?
sure they do. It is not my experience that they come back when they do.
how long can the colony wait before it will no longer be accepted back into the parent hive
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There are usually multiple queens in a hive that has virgin queen swarms. I have picked up swarms that had more than one virgin queen in it.
now...if your virgin takes a swarm away and there is no queen left in the hive, and no resources to make one....you might be in trouble.
So, I think the real question is not how long can the hive wait until that virgin swarm comes back, but is/are there a queen, queen cells, or eggs in the hive from which she swarmed?
Have I successfully muddied up the waters? :cheesy:
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Is there no such thing as a virgin leaving with a swarm?
now...if your virgin takes a swarm away and there is no queen left in the hive, and no resources to make one....you might be in trouble.
If you get to that point there probably isn't a colony left either. So do you know how long a swarm can be away from the parent hive and come back to the hive and be accepted. Basically, is it days or hours?
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Is there no such thing as a virgin leaving with a swarm?
now...if your virgin takes a swarm away and there is no queen left in the hive, and no resources to make one....you might be in trouble.
If you get to that point there probably isn't a colony left either. So do you know how long a swarm can be away from the parent hive and come back to the hive and be accepted. Basically, is it days or hours?
The answer is probably a day. Sometimes when a swarm leaves, the queen does not go (clipped wings or blocked by a queen excluder) the swarm does not go far and waits for the queen. After a while they will return to the original hive and then try again.
Secondary swarms often times have multiple virgin queens. The queens will wait until the new hive is settled to fight to determine who will survive. If the queen were to leave to mate while they are traveling, she would never find the hive. When they settle, she has to orient to the hive just like every other bee in the hive.
She will not mate en route because she does not want to mate with siblings.
Jim
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So then if is very unlikely if not impossible that a swarm will go back to the parent hive if the virgin queen doesn't make it back from a mating flight. If a beekeeper were to catch one of his own swarms and have this happen he must use newspaper to combine the swarm back to the parent hive.
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""She will not mate en route because she does not want to mate with siblings.""
Jim, The flying age drones in the hive are not her siblings. When a drone gets to flying age, he becomes a nomad, flying from hive to hive, being fed at each one. That's the number one way varroa are spread. So yes, the queen may well mate during the swarm flight.
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The swam will not go back to the original hive if the virgin doesn't return from her mating flight. They may, if they are hoplessly queenless and have no brood, drift to the closest colony they smell eventually. It usually takes about two weeks for the queen to get mated. After three weeks when she finally mates she will be a drone layer. If she never mates she never lays. If she never returns she never lays.
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Some of the "wood be" x-perts have been keeping bees for 50,60 + years. There will be new things they also run across. in other words, what will Bee will be.I have found out in the 15 + years I have kept bees, some time they will do the same thing in a different way. d2
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I have caught after swarms with 5 vigins in them