Methods for preventing a Nuc from swarming.

[RHBee]

I'm soon making up 8 nucs. I plan to keep them all year as reserve queens. My question is. .What methods are used to prevent over crowding swarms in nucs. All I can think of is opening the brood nest often with empty comb or foundationless frames. I plan to make the nucs 4 frame mediums and run them 3 supers high.

[Steel Tiger]

 Pull a frame a brood and replace it with an empty frame.  If you pull brood from a couple nucs, use them to make another nuc or to boost a hive.

[greenbtree]

What Steel Tiger said.

JC

[greenbtree]

Oh, and EMPTY frame, no foundation, nothing, and keep a close watch.

JC

[RHBee]

Thanks guys. That's what I thought,  open the brood nest.

[10framer]

use them as comb builders during the flow or make up more nucs.  i used one for a comb builder last year then converted it into a full hive in may and it went into winter as a deep and 2 mediums.  it was the exception for me, though.

[drlonzo]

Some people use them for brood builders for queen rearing.  Harvest frames of bees and capped brood to start a cell builder.  Look for videos from Mike Palmer in VT.  He shows what he does with nuc's to control the swarm instinct.

[D Coates]

I add another 5 frame nuc box on top and turn it into a 10 frame nuc, add another if you need to as well.  Once you find your queen you can steal 5 frames worth of brood and nurse bees to give boosts to weaker hives when ever you need to.  I've added 3 a couple of times in emergencies but at that height they'll blow over in a storm (they aren't happy when this happens).

[vemergy]

How does one ensure that the frame being pulled out does not have the queen on it?
I have been into bee-keeping for one year, and seems to me that I would spend a whole day looking for the queen, and still not sure at the end of it, that I would have succeeded in finding it.
What tips and advice would you be able to provide to a new-bee with this question.

Regards,
George

[RHBee]

How does one ensure that the frame being pulled out does not have the queen on it?
I have been into bee-keeping for one year, and seems to me that I would spend a whole day looking for the queen, and still not sure at the end of it, that I would have succeeded in finding it.
What tips and advice would you be able to provide to a new-bee with this question.

Regards,
George

Use a queen excluder between the supers, come back in a few days and the one with eggs has the queen. You can steal with confidence.

[sc-bee]

Some people use them for brood builders for queen rearing.  Harvest frames of bees and capped brood to start a cell builder.  Look for videos from Mike Palmer in VT.  He shows what he does with nuc's to control the swarm instinct.

I watched two of his videos last night. I know he is an excellent beekeeper and each has he own way but after watching the queen rearing video I was totally confused :?  I understood the idea but had a hard time picturing his hive make ups for starter/ finishers. I imagine probably just me. May try to watch it again. I suppose his nuc wintering concept is mostly for cold weather beekeepers as it call for constructing nuc boxes that are not standard sizes I believe?

[sc-bee]

How does one ensure that the frame being pulled out does not have the queen on it?
I have been into bee-keeping for one year, and seems to me that I would spend a whole day looking for the queen, and still not sure at the end of it, that I would have succeeded in finding it.
What tips and advice would you be able to provide to a new-bee with this question.

Regards,
George

Use a queen excluder between the supers, come back in a few days and the one with eggs has the queen. You can steal with confidence.

Or remove the frames you want. Shake all the bees into the bottom box. Place the excluder on and put the frames of brood in an upper nuc box a top the one you just shook the bees in-cover and walk away. Come back in a few hours and pull the frames above the excluder with bees and brood. She will be below the excluder.

Or use an exclude in place as a shaker box. Shake the bees through the excluder. Look for the queen on top as she will not be able to pass through the excluder.

I am beginning to have queen finding issues in populous hives. I think I am going to start marking my queen.

[RHBee]

>Or use an exclude in place as a shaker box. Shake the bees through the excluder. Look for the queen on top as she will not be able to pass through the excluder.<

Steve, do you have a picture of a shaker box that you can post?

[sc-bee]

>Or use an exclude in place as a shaker box. Shake the bees through the excluder. Look for the queen on top as she will not be able to pass through the excluder.<

Steve, do you have a picture of a shaker box that you can post?

Nothing but an excluder nailed to the bottom of a medium or deep. You don't have to nail it just makes it more convenient to lift. Not a package shaker box. But I saw a video where a guy made a package shaker box out of cardboard and used a large frozen food container (sour cream etc) as the funnel piece for a mouth.

[RHBee]

>Or use an exclude in place as a shaker box. Shake the bees through the excluder. Look for the queen on top as she will not be able to pass through the excluder.<

Steve, do you have a picture of a shaker box that you can post?

Nothing but an excluder nailed to the bottom of a medium or deep. You don't have to nail it just makes it more convenient to lift. Not a package shaker box. But I saw a video where a guy made a package shaker box out of cardboard and used a large frozen food container (sour cream etc) as the funnel piece for a mouth.

Found this. Same type used by Sue Cobey. I'm gonna see if I can build one.

[sc-bee]

That is the kind that folks put packages together with. Here is what I am referring to in use by M Palmer, Not he two inches of duct tape around the top. He states the bees will not cross the duct tape and will remain below the tape in the box vs boiling out. He also stated somewhere in the long version video that about 30% of his hives have double queens (I think I got that number right). Of course a rouge queen will wreck your queen cells so he uses the shaker box when he makes up all his cell builders.

Beekeeping: Building Cell Builders with Mike Palmer

[RHBee]

This is looking down into the funnel.

[10framer]

Some people use them for brood builders for queen rearing.  Harvest frames of bees and capped brood to start a cell builder.  Look for videos from Mike Palmer in VT.  He shows what he does with nuc's to control the swarm instinct.

I watched two of his videos last night. I know he is an excellent beekeeper and each has he own way but after watching the queen rearing video I was totally confused :?  I understood the idea but had a hard time picturing his hive make ups for starter/ finishers. I imagine probably just me. May try to watch it again. I suppose his nuc wintering concept is mostly for cold weather beekeepers as it call for constructing nuc boxes that are not standard sizes I believe?
i wintered a few with 4 frames and division board feeder downstairs and frames above.  the 5 up top were foundation until the goldenrod came in.  i had to feed them 4 or 5 times but they took off pretty well.  I've pulled 4 frame splits off of a couple of them and will be supering them this weekend.

[sc-bee]

Some people use them for brood builders for queen rearing.  Harvest frames of bees and capped brood to start a cell builder.  Look for videos from Mike Palmer in VT.  He shows what he does with nuc's to control the swarm instinct.

I watched two of his videos last night. I know he is an excellent beekeeper and each has he own way but after watching the queen rearing video I was totally confused :?  I understood the idea but had a hard time picturing his hive make ups for starter/ finishers. I imagine probably just me. May try to watch it again. I suppose his nuc wintering concept is mostly for cold weather beekeepers as it call for constructing nuc boxes that are not standard sizes I believe?
i wintered a few with 4 frames and division board feeder downstairs and frames above.  the 5 up top were foundation until the goldenrod came in.  i had to feed them 4 or 5 times but they took off pretty well.  I've pulled 4 frame splits off of a couple of them and will be supering them this weekend.

Are you saying you winter in a deep with a divider containing two nucs as Palmer with boxes stacked on top. I have wintered a stacked five frame but he winters two nucs with a divider in a ten frame box for heat. He stacks five frame boxes above the two separate pieces below. His nucs below are four frame and he has to special make the boxes to have the sealing surface wide enough on the ten frame box to allow sealing the two five frame nucs when added above. He states they will pull and draw comb quicker and he places the foundation to the center of the box next to the divider. He says the bees treat the divider as if it is not there and they still cluster to the center of the box.

[Spear]

This is maybe the Mike Palmer presentation that was most interesting to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nznzpiWEI8A

[drlonzo]

I've watched this one about 5 times.  If i had a week to spend i think i'd love to go while he's raising queens and help out for fun.

[10framer]

i use double 5 frame deeps.  i made the nucs in late july with 4 frames and a feeder and put 5 frames of foundation above them.  they mostly drew all of the foundation out in september when goldenrod came in.  
i'm getting ready to make some nucs like his for raising queens.  i'm going to make a screened board that i can slide into the middle spot in the fall to combine the two halves into one after i use one of the queens to replace any slackers.

[sc-bee]

i use double 5 frame deeps.  i made the nucs in late july with 4 frames and a feeder and put 5 frames of foundation above them.  they mostly drew all of the foundation out in september when goldenrod came in.  
i'm getting ready to make some nucs like his for raising queens.  i'm going to make a screened board that i can slide into the middle spot in the fall to combine the two halves into one after i use one of the queens to replace any slackers.

Did you purchase queens or let them make one. Probably purchased? I bought  queens from a breeder in GA a couple weeks ago. Two have failed or disappeared from the get go. I really want to try the queen thing but want step out there :idunno: Tired of paying someone else for sorry queens. I can raise sorry ones myself :-D

[drlonzo]

sc-bee,  what was your reasons for purchasing queens ?  If you can, you should let your bees do what's normal and raise their own queens.  That is if they have the means to do so.  It would seem that lots of people are having great luck with it.  The purchased queens from afar seem to fail alot these days.

[10framer]

i grafted some and then when i made my final splits i purchased 4 queens from someone in north east georgia.  1 was superseded within a week or two another was superseded in late february, one starved (my fault) and another one is now in a double 10 frame deep.  they are drawing foundation and show no signs of wanting to swarm.  i've made splits this spring by pulling 3 or 4 frames with the queen from hives that had swarm cells.  i've doubled the first one (march 15) and will split the split next weekend.  i grafted 22 larvae yesterday, i'll split my hives that are lagging as well as the nucs i've made this spring into some 5 frame and 4 frame nucs to finish the queens out.  

[drlonzo]

10framer - north east gA , wouldn't be speaking of LULA would ya?  I've had problems with queens from there myself.

[sc-bee]

sc-bee,  what was your reasons for purchasing queens ?  If you can, you should let your bees do what's normal and raise their own queens.  That is if they have the means to do so.  It would seem that lots of people are having great luck with it.  The purchased queens from afar seem to fail alot these days.

I lost 7 hive this winter and had an inside on early delivery on some queens. Thought it would help me build up quicker with some splits since it would be alot longer to raise some. Ga just right across the border there. But with this years winters the early queens may not have been bred as good as they should have .... but I have had supercedure issue with bought queens multiple times. And it could have been my errors ..... Who knows now days??? We will see how the other queens turn out.

[sc-bee]

10framer - north east gA , wouldn't be speaking of LULA would ya?  I've had problems with queens from there myself.

Want to get on board in this one but I will hold back......... I really don't have a dog in the fight but have head stories at the dog fight.

[drlonzo]

SCbee - I know what you mean.  All said, all done, is your current queens doing well or still having other issues?

[10framer]

no, not lula. 

[RHBee]

You guys made me look that one up. Kinda cryptic. I'm betting on Claxton GA. I'll let you know.

[sc-bee]

SCbee - I know what you mean.  All said, all done, is your current queens doing well or still having other issues?

 

Mine not lula either ...... kinda used to the production bee failure thing though. The other 5 time will tell. I guess if you get 5 of 7 probably beating odds on production queens. Time will tell how the others fair. Also got two dead ones in the mail from another supplier last year. I called to file USPS claim and they said they would do it. Well you know that story. After three calls never heard anything. Called them last week and had them look it up again. They said they recieved no help from USPS last year. Well why bother with the insurance. Has anyone ever had USPS make good on the insurance? They said they would send me two queens in a couple weeks. We will see but I think they will.

Ray who hi-jacked this thread :-D

[RHBee]

That's okay Steve. I'm enjoying the read. I misread your post on thin foundation. I thought you were wanting to produce comb honey.

[Dallasbeek]

That is the kind that folks put packages together with. Here is what I am referring to in use by M Palmer, Not he two inches of duct tape around the top. He states the bees will not cross the duct tape and will remain below the tape in the box vs boiling out. He also stated somewhere in the long version video that about 30% of his hives have double queens (I think I got that number right). Of course a rouge queen will wreck your queen cells so he uses the shaker box when he makes up all his cell builders.

Beekeeping: Building Cell Builders with Mike Palmer

Sc-bee, what is a rouge queen?  I googled it and came up with a shop Baton Rouge called The Queen Bee.

:wierd:

Gary

[Dallasbeek]

Sc-bee, sorry about "weird thread" in emoji....all I saw was "what's it about, anyway.  Definelynot a weird thread.  Very informative, but what's a rouge queen?

Gary

[drlonzo]

@ Dallasbeek -  Rouge Queen is one that is a virgin out for mating flight and finds your queenless cellbuilder and moves in.  Since they are currently queenless they will pretty much accept any queen that shows up at the door.  Also being rouge can mean that she is a virgin in the box already that you have missed, possibly a supercedure queen or swarm queen that hatched recently.  This is why M Palmer puts his bees through a shaker box prior to setting up the cellbuilders.

[Dallasbeek]

Drlonzo, thanks for the explanation.  Never saw that term before. 

Gary

[10framer]

well, looking on the map it's really more east central.