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Author Topic: Bees not using super  (Read 1814 times)

Offline NCNate

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Bees not using super
« on: July 03, 2020, 08:02:47 pm »
Three weeks ago I placed a medium super on 2 of my hives. Every day I've been off work and had time to work them since then it's been raining. I finally was able to go in them today and they've barely started drawing the foundation. The hives are double deeps and both are packed. Every cell that doesn't have brood or larva has nectar.  The queen has nowhere to lay.
What can I do to get them to draw out the super?

Offline iddee

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2020, 08:11:53 pm »
If you have excluders on them, remove them for 2 weeks.

If not, the flow is likely over and they won't draw until needed.
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Offline NCNate

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2020, 08:54:35 pm »
One had an excluder and one didn't. The one without evidently swarmed a few days ago. No eggs (no place to put them) and the youngest larva was about 4 days old. That one also had a couple capped queen cells.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2020, 08:57:36 am »
If you are going to mix deeps and mediums you need to make the transition when the hive is young and has the urge to expand.  That means the second box should have been a medium not a deep.
What to do now?  My suggestion would be to split even though it is not the best time of the year.  Put the deeps on the bottom and a medium on top of each (no excluders).  Good luck.
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Offline NCNate

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2020, 12:15:19 pm »
What if I added an upper entrance?  Would it help?

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2020, 12:18:39 pm »
Try spraying the frames with sugar water.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2020, 01:39:19 pm »
There is always more than one way to do things in beekeeping, along with opinions. What I am about to say has been frowned upon by some here. Take your top brood box, remove some of the frames with the most nectar and less brood. Replace these with your new frames of foundation staggering the old frames and new empty ones, (it would be even better if you already have available empty drawn out frames giving instant relief and room for eggs from nectar in box number two) At least four frames of the described of brood and nectar. Place these in a new box making this your third box. Staggering these with foundation frames not drawn out frames (because of SHB) as you did in your box number two.

If you still are in a flow you will be amazed at how fast the frames will be drawn out in box number two and box number three. When these are drawn out you can replace your excluder. MAKE SURE the queen is not above the excluder when you replace the excluder. If not she may be trapped on top and things will be upside down in that hive. Not fun.........  Now iF the flow is over..... advice is null and void.

In the required time, the brood in box three will hatch while the queen will not be upstairs to re-lay in these (now empty cells) 'frames', leaving them available for nectar. 
One  more thing , this hive might already have decided to swarm even if you have not yet seen queen cells. I would check regularly to make sure they do not start new queen cells until things are ginning once more.  This my opinion for your situation. Good luck.


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« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 01:52:47 pm by Ben Framed »
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Offline NCNate

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 04:01:32 pm »
So I should replace the medium with a deep and use all deep frames?
How hard is it to reduce them back to 2 deeps?  My back is not in good enough shape to handle a deep full of honey.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2020, 05:34:04 pm »
No, I completely over looked the details of your two different box sizes. I am so use to having one size for all.  Disregard  my prior post. That advice will not work for you.  I would however recommend that you choose one size set up and stay with it, being medium or deep for you brood as well as your honey supers. You will find the flexibility a valuable  asset.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2020, 10:02:53 am »
My back is not in good enough shape to handle a deep full of honey.
That is why older people avoid deeps all together.
When you are in a dearth it is hard to do a transition from deep to medium.  On the good side it is hard for them to swarm too.
The way you transition is to pull a couple of frames from the top deep box and place them in the medium box on top.  This leaves a space below the two deep frames which you can plug or not.  It depends on how you want to deal with the clean up at a later date.  I would draw the frames from the center of the hive and plug it.  My guess is the hive will not get any larger then 2 deeps and a medium unless you have a strong fall flow.  If that happens you are just adding mediums and you should have medium frames drawn and full from the box below.  The two deep frames should be nothing but honey so you can pull and extract them and take out the plug.
Another option is to do absolutely nothing and wait it out.  In a dearth they are going to consume honey and cut back on brood.
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Offline NCNate

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2020, 04:07:22 pm »
Thanks for all the replies.

I went back in to them today. I had an excluder on one and remed it on Friday. They are working that super now. The other one still doesn't have much activity. I sprayed the foundation with 2:1 sugar water and installed a small spacer on top with an upper entrance. Hopefully that will entice them to start using the super. If they don't start using and guarding the upper entrance in the next couple days I'll have to remove it.

BTW,  our Sourwoods have been blooming for a couple weeks and the bees are still working them heavy. LOTS of capped honey in the deeps. They were both down to about 7 or 8 frames of brood in the double deep, and a couple of those were 60% + of honey. I'll probably end up robbing a couple frames out of each one to open it back up some.

Another side note, the split i made about 5 weeks ago is going strong. Really impressed with the queen and happy how it turned out.
And if I could figure out how to make the picture file size small enough I would post them...

Split was made when I found capped queen cells in one of the other hives.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2020, 08:32:49 am »
Use a photo hosting site and provide a link here.  That way you don't lose any resolution and don't have to bother with resizing.
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Offline NCNate

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2020, 10:33:30 am »
Let's try this:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sDm9HufiSo6AZfRDA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Nt9oQu1VZYCNpxwD8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/n4moJcoB5srHbo6t6

Those are pictures of the queen and her laying pattern from the split i made when i found capped queen cells in one of the other hives. That hive is going strong and eagerly started drawing comb when I added a super over the single hive bottom.
I did feed them regularly for the first 3 weeks. Then went to less than a half gallon every week or so. They're strong enough now they shouldn't need any more.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 10:44:05 am by NCNate »

Offline Acebird

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2020, 06:44:38 pm »
Pictures are great.  Where is the honey?  I would expect to see the top box pretty full of honey if you have two deeps on it.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline NCNate

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Re: Bees not using super
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2020, 11:19:21 pm »
Those pics are of the split. Single deep with one medium super which their pulling quickly.
Sadly I forgot to take pics when I was in the two with issues.

 

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