hive beetle control opinions, please

[animal]

Everything looks good in the hive as far as I can tell and no odd smells, slimy stuff, or larvae..
The bee population has been growing steadily and they seem to be building comb well.
Transferred 5 full frames from a nuc a couple of days ago into a 10 frame box. The bees didn't want to come off of the nuc lid or out of the box, so I set the nuc on top of the 10 frame box upside down with its cover next to it.
Today, I took those off to put the correct covers on..
There was a small cluster of bees on top of the frames in the corner. A beetle hauled butt out of the cluster onto the outside of the hive and I squished it before I could get a good look.
Stuck in the bottom of the nuc was a dead one. Looked it up and confirmed it to be SHB. These look completely black to me , though.

Anyway, I was thinking of ordering some of those oil traps to go on top between the frames .. and trying swiffer sheets in the corners since I can get them now.
would rather not use poison unless I have to ..

What do you guys think?

edit: sorry, should have put this in pest control ..

[animal]

Oh .. When I put them in the bigger box, I put the frames in the same order but spaced them with the new empty frames. (foundation-less ... frames have 45 degree edge cut on top and bottom .. some started off with comb wired into them)
Is that correct?

[Ben Framed]

The thing about SHB; they can invade and take over quickly.. From having just a few and boom! I have been observing hives in the late evening just before dark and could not believe the numbers coming into a particular hive. 'Thankfully' Paus and 'Beemaster2' introduced me to hive bottom 'oil trays'. This pretty much takes care of them has been my experience, and without poisons .. I had lost hives to them before I tried this..

Phillip

[The15thMember]

Transferred 5 full frames from a nuc a couple of days ago into a 10 frame box. The bees didn't want to come off of the nuc lid or out of the box, so I set the nuc on top of the 10 frame box upside down with its cover next to it.

Pro tip: Bees can be shaken off equipment if you just give it a stiff shake.  Once you dislodge their little hooks off the wall, they are entirely pourable.  You could also use a bee brush if you have one, although I find they get more aggravated being brushed than just shaken. 

Anyway, I was thinking of ordering some of those oil traps to go on top between the frames .. and trying swiffer sheets in the corners since I can get them now.
would rather not use poison unless I have to ..

Poison is definitely not necessary, and it would be difficult to find something that you could feel good wouldn't hurt the bees too, since both beetles and bees are insects.  I use Swiffer sheets with good results personally, but I don't have anywhere near the beetle trouble those south or down (in elevation) of me do.  The oil tray is quite popular with folks who live in real beetle country. 

[Ben Framed]

Pro tip: Bees can be shaken off equipment if you just give it a stiff shake.  Once you dislodge their little hooks off the wall, they are entirely pourable.  You could also use a bee brush if you have one, although I find they get more aggravated being brushed than just shaken.

Good tip Reagan, another option is you can simply give the top, held in the right position, a bang against the top box and they go in instantly. I learned this from Tim Durham. 'The Walls Bee Man'..

Phillip

[animal]

Thanks, I have been planning to do a screened oil tray, but haven't had time to build one... plus have a little confusion about screen size etc...
Most of the articles I saw gave a range of aperture size ... and haven't had time to find out what is available now as far as number sizes and wire gauges.
Also, many articles seem to say "aperture" when they mean "on-center measurement" and a couple of them definitely did.

this beetle looks like it might fall through #8 and might not ... #8 has wires spaced 1/8" on centers, so it has an aperture of (0.125" - wire diameter) .. Beetle will definitely fall through the aluminum expanded mesh used for gutter guards, and it looks small enough to keep out bees, but there are sharp edges. I could tumble the stuff in sand, but that would be a lot of trouble.

looking on Amazon, they usually state fractional, number, or millimeter size. The wire diameter is almost never stated. When it comes to the metric stuff, I assume that is on-center measurement, but really don't know.

Haven't put the calipers on the dead beetle yet.... As soon as I typed that, I realized you guys are gonna be laughing at me... oh well..

So what do you buy for mesh that works ? ... or do you all buy ready-made bottoms ?


 When I was young, you could get the stuff in different wire gauges, and spacing at a local hardware store ... long gone now.
You could even get it in spacings like 1/8" x 1/4".... went to the co-op looking for that or #6 last week thinking it would work well ...
and the buggers laughed at me and said there's no such thing... Luckily I had a scrap about 1' wide of 1/8"x 1/4", so I went back down there to show them. All they have locally is too big.

Assuming it needs to be metal because bees may chew on it ?

was also thinking of making a thing out of sheet metal like a miniature version of a termite shield for the bottom of the brood box.. That the bees could step over but mites and beetles couldn't. ..Silly idea ?

The inner lid has a beetle trap and adjustable vent integrated into it... uses the scent of the hive as bait, just an experiment.

[animal]

No don't have a brush yet... thought I still had a drafting brush, but moths or something got to it. ... So far, I haven't actually bought anything specifically "bee"...

I've been really gentle with them, partly because of things that you guys wouldn't approve of .. like moving them from nuc to hive with shorts, t-shirt, and a rubber band around my beard the only protection. They will get tangled in the beard otherwise, then they get mad and it's hard to get them loose without making them madder. ... Been just listening and watching to try to learn their ways, buzzes, and reactions ... and getting them used to me. The nuc has been sitting on a bench on the front porch, and often, it's been my armrest.
So far, no stings at all since the cut-out. These guys seem really polite.

[Occam]

The #8 (1/8th inch) hardware cloth works really well for letting beetles and their larva through. The issue comes from when the beele larva hatch, they have to go down to the soil and they drop through the hardware cloth easily. My regular hive has never had an issue with shb though I've seen a few in there and kill them when I can. A strong hive can often manage them. Hundreds of larvae moving is a big problem

[animal]

Sorry, don't understand .. don't see the problem, then ... with a 1/8" screen for bees to walk on over a tray of mineral oil.

ideal would be largest size for bees to not go through, right ?

[The15thMember]

Haven't put the calipers on the dead beetle yet.... As soon as I typed that, I realized you guys are gonna be laughing at me... oh well..

I've been really gentle with them, partly because of things that you guys wouldn't approve of .. like moving them from nuc to hive with shorts, t-shirt, and a rubber band around my beard the only protection. They will get tangled in the beard otherwise, then they get mad and it's hard to get them loose without making them madder. ... Been just listening and watching to try to learn their ways, buzzes, and reactions ... and getting them used to me. The nuc has been sitting on a bench on the front porch, and often, it's been my armrest.
So far, no stings at all since the cut-out. These guys seem really polite.

I think all this sounds really great actually, and we have several people who work hives in shorts and a shirt.  Bees do hate getting tangled in hair; as someone with very long hair, I've learned that lesson the hard way.  It's also cool that you have a beard that is long enough to have to tie up! 

So what do you buy for mesh that works ?

The #8 (1/8th inch) hardware cloth works really well for letting beetles and their larva through. The issue comes from when the beele larva hatch, they have to go down to the soil and they drop through the hardware cloth easily. My regular hive has never had an issue with shb though I've seen a few in there and kill them when I can. A strong hive can often manage them. Hundreds of larvae moving is a big problem

Sorry, don't understand .. don't see the problem, then ... with a 1/8" screen for bees to walk on over a tray of mineral oil.

ideal would be smallest size for bees to not go through, right ?

#8 hardware cloth is bee fence, workers cannot pass through it.  I use it for covering ventilation holes in my moisture quilts, and yes, it can be extremely difficult to find locally.  The next town over happens to have an old Ace hardware that carries it, or I'd be having to special order it. 

Assuming it needs to be metal because bees may chew on it ?

 
Bee will chew on wood, but I've never see them chew through wood, if that makes sense. 

was also thinking of making a thing out of sheet metal like a miniature version of a termite shield for the bottom of the brood box.. That the bees could step over but mites and beetles couldn't. ..Silly idea ?

I think that sounds like a silly idea.  The mites are coming in on the bees, so it wouldn't help with that.  And I'm pretty sure the beetles have little sticky pads on their feet like the bees, so I think they could both crawl over something shiny. 

[animal]

oops ..., meant to say largest size that bees can't pass through .. so .. is there a larger size that worker bees can't get through?

Wasn't thinking of wood at all .. found plastic mesh in a variety of sizes and would be slipperier ... but am scared of it.

  laugh some more ... It measures  0.125" wide by 0.172 long  ... so it wouldn't go through 1/8" .... maybe not SHB then ?
It sure looks like the pictures that came up on google.. and when I got it under bright light, it did have a slight reddish brown tint.

beard... I whacked it off last year so it's only to mid chest, but the brillo pad nature of it makes it grab whatever comes close

Angles of legs relative to the body and length .. to navigate a shield pointing downward 45 degrees ... I guess I'll have to pull out the microscope and look at bug feet. 

Thanks much for the help !

[Ben Framed]

animal
When I was young, you could get the stuff in different wire gauges, and spacing at a local hardware store ...

The only #8 that I could find locally was from a old time hardware store, the stuff was new old stock. Probably had been sitting on the old top shelf for many years. I felt fortunate to get it.

If you are close to Philadelphia Ms, you might try the famous old time hardware store located there. I have not visited there but I hear they have everything! Sorry but I don?t know the mane of it.

Phillip

[animal]

Thanks, that might be Williams Brothers general store ... or I can order 1/8" square hole locally or  Amazon .. If that's the size  need.


1/8" x 1/4" was from Renfroe Hardware years ago in Meridian ... They had everything you could think of plus some .. copper nails, solid brass whatever, cast iron stuff, canning everything, ....no problem .. i miss that store.

Bought a bottle capper there when I was in high school. Made mixed drinks in the old thick "deposit" CocaCola bottles.. even stocked a machine in the student center at college with 'em a couple of times (for special occasions) and put an "out of order" sign on the appropriate gates ... never got caught

[The15thMember]

laugh some more ... It measures  0.125" wide by 0.172 long  ... so it wouldn't go through 1/8" .... maybe not SHB then ?
It sure looks like the pictures that came up on google.. and when I got it under bright light, it did have a slight reddish brown tint.


Angles of legs relative to the body and length .. to navigate a shield pointing downward 45 degrees ... I guess I'll have to pull out the microscope and look at bug feet. 

The hive beetles to me also look black unless they are in bright light.  The thing to look at if you aren't sure is the antennae; SHB have antennae shaped like golf clubs.  I don't have experience with oil trays, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, as Aaron said, you are really trying to catch the larvae when they leave the hive to pupate in the ground.  I have seen hive beetles squeeze through #8 hardware cloth though.  The thing is, weirdly, hive beetles seem to be attracted to the scent of the dead bodies of their own kind, so dead beetles in the oil pan actually act as bait for more beetles.  I've seen it happen with my hanging oil traps.  The more full of beetles they are, the more full of beetles they get.     

[Ben Framed]

The oil trays are in place to rid the hive of beatles 'before' they have time to reproduce larva..  The bees can handle them up to a point detouring laying. Once the larvae, 'worms' are incorporated into the combs of honey etc, it may be too late unless the beekeeper is lucky enough to remove the frames involved in time, (which I was not when I lost to SHB).. (Before oil trays) and I was inspecting weekly as a new, enthusiastic beekeeper..

My oil trays are the size of the diminater of my hives, I have had oil trays so loaded with SHB that there were too many to count, but the hives were saved.. Yes the SHB go through the number 8 never to return; to their death! And good for them!! !!

As Jim (Beemaster2) and Paus has repeated here through the years, once the SHB population is under control, future numbers euthanized in the oil trays amazingly subside considerably. 

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

animal
Thanks, that might be Williams Brothers general store ...

That rings a bell! Yes that might be it..

Phillip

[The15thMember]

The oil trays are in place to rid the hive of beatles 'before' they have time to reproduce larva..  The bees can handle them up to a point detouring laying. Once the larvae, 'worms' are incorporated into the combs of honey etc, it may be too late unless the beekeeper is lucky enough to remove the frames involved in time, (which I was not when I lost to SHB).. (Before oil trays) and I was inspecting weekly as a new, enthusiastic beekeeper..

My oil trays are the size of the diminater of my hives, I have had oil trays so loaded with SHB that there were too many to count, but the hives were saved.. Yes the SHB go through the number 8 never to return; to their death! And good for them!! !!

As Jim (Beemaster2) and Paus has repeated here through the years, once the SHB population is under control, future numbers euthanized in the oil trays amazingly subside considerably. 

Phillip

Okay, so you are catching adult beetles.  That makes sense. 

laugh some more ... It measures  0.125" wide by 0.172 long  ... so it wouldn't go through 1/8" .... maybe not SHB then ?
It sure looks like the pictures that came up on google.. and when I got it under bright light, it did have a slight reddish brown tint.

Isn't .125 exactly 1/8?  Keep in mind that insects do have a decent amount of flexibility between the plates of their exoskeleton, so I'd imagine a live beetle could squeeze through a hole that size with minimal trouble.

[Ben Framed]

Or go through it catty cornered.

Phillip

[animal]

Isn't .125 exactly 1/8?  Keep in mind that insects do have a decent amount of flexibility between the plates of their exoskeleton, so I'd imagine a live beetle could squeeze through a hole that size with minimal trouble.

Yes, probably ... but he would have to turn sideways to get through. The opening of 1/8" cloth is .125 minus the diameter of the wire since it is measured by center to center of each wire.
Was hoping to have the largest hole possible that bees can't get through ... so the beetles don't have to try to fall through.

[animal]

I'm not sure if fat boy here is SHB or a look-alike  ... not a bug guy ... It has the clubbed antenna, oval shape, a crescent-ish shaped head, wing covers stop just short of the butt, ... and way faster than I expected for a beetle .. haven't read anything about speed of SHB .... but this thing was fast!

 ..if they're attracted to putrefying dead ... maybe better to fry'em ? .. bug zapper style

kidding . .. mostly