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Author Topic: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.  (Read 4989 times)

Offline van from Arkansas

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Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« on: April 03, 2019, 04:59:33 pm »
I had the State Bee Inspector for Arkansas inspect my hives yesterday, 04/02/2019.  All went well at my site and a health permit was issued.

However the inspector informed me of a state wide loss of 50 percent attributed to Varroa.  One new beekeeper purchased 40 hives and lost ALL 40 this past March.  He did not treat nor paid any attention to natural small cell, that is the new beekeeper made no attempt to educate himself on bees and pest thereof.  The inspector was frustrated at all the new beekeepers that made little or no attempt to study and learn about honeybees.

I have know the inspector for years, an easy going fella, and I have never seen the fella so frustrated at the loss of so many hives all over the state.  The inspector told me:  Folks just want to buy bees, a flow hive, turn a tap then walla BEAUTIFUL HONEY.  These flow hives are misleading folks.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 05:17:06 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline paus

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2019, 05:13:50 pm »
I said almost the exact words this AM over coffee with my great wife.  No she will not read this .  I said that "many people want to keep bees and go out and turn on the faucet when they want honey on hot biscuits".  As I scooped some creamed honey on my biscuits.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2019, 12:17:31 am »
For me personally, researching is like breathing, vital and automatic. As a result, I can?t stand it when people don?t do their research beforehand, especially about something like beekeeping. How can a person think that they can handle dealing with and caring for thousands of stinging insects when they can?t even tell a bee from a wasp!?  And with the internet today, there is almost nothing you can?t find out and most people just don?t care to know. It both shocks and appalls me. I was talking to one of the staff members at a bee store down in South Carolina a few months ago, and she said she?s had people come to pick up packages of bees who then ask her, ?So I guess I need to buy a box to put them in at home, right??   :angry:
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 09:32:40 am »
So the 50% loss is do to newbies not knowing what they are doing or established beekeepers?
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2019, 10:11:13 am »
Loss due to Varroa cause  newbies not doing anything to rid mites.  The newbies made no attempt to learn bees.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Online gww

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2019, 11:28:06 am »
I am pretty new.  i am starting my fourth spring/summer.  I have ten hives and don't treat.  I have lost one swarm that never built up in all that time.  I have no doubt that mites kill some hives.  I think there are other ways to also kill hives.  I know some who have lost hives.  I don't know why they lost them, mine don't die yet.  Mites apparently do not kill all hives and so maybe that is the cause and maybe that is not the whole story.

It is good that a person can feel good about himself when doing so much better then somebody else but I often wonder if it is always smarts that are the real cause of the why it happens.  Lots of things go on with bees and due to that, we may be knowing the real cause of the problem or we may only be pointing out one contributing factor that does not tell the whole story.  I have heard of people keeping bees in the same way in two places with one of those places doing much better then the other and no seen reason being easy enough to see to explain why.
Just saying.
Cheers
gww

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2019, 11:33:54 am »
in my experience Varroa is the number one reason for hive deaths. know how to deal with varroa, most hives will make it. the remainder of losses is due to queen failure mainly. mostly due to purely bred queens.
AFB I never encountered.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 08:51:34 am »
Loss due to Varroa cause  newbies not doing anything to rid mites.  The newbies made no attempt to learn bees.
It is a question of statistics Van.  In most states newbies have an insignificant number of hives compared to veteran beekeepers.  So if the loss is 50% state wide then the veteran beekeepers are losing them in very high numbers.  So is Arkansas's hive loss at 50% or not?  If so rethink the problem instead of pointing fingers.
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Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 09:28:20 am »
a newbie with 40 hives overdid himself, I`d say. I couldn`t have handled them in the beginning.

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 12:01:01 pm »
Unfortunately and sadly, those numbers don't sound far off the mark in my opinion.  Similar losses I believe are mounting in Tennessee.  Early Spring is the most dangerous time of the year for our beehives due to a number of factors but these factors are heavily compounded if the hives make it into Spring in very weak and unhealthy condition. 

In my opinion  mites, that are continuously being incorrectly treated for late Fall & Winter survial by insisting upon using varroa mite treatments that treat and are effective on phoretic mites only as opposed to employing treatments that kill the reproductive/foundress varroa mites. 

Other factors that are causing these Winter losses and weakenings such as tracheal mites.  Most beekeepers do not treat for tracheal mites.  They are very difficult to detect visually until K-wing virus starts effecting the bees. 

Another big factor is beekeepers are NOT checking their hives on a frequent enough basis to ensure the hives have adequate food resources that are in contact with the cluster. 

Although I am sure many will argue the point of whether or not hive insulation is necessary, it has been my experience that properly insulated hives have a much higher survival rate than those that are not insulated.  Beehives in which the internal temperatures are stabilized from dipping below approximately 35 - 40 degrees F, the bees will still cluster up but are able to move around inside the hive to access food resources inside the hive that may not be in contact with the cluster.  Once the internal hive temperature drops much below approximately 35 - 40 degrees F, the bees typically will NOT break out of the cluster.  If food resources are not in contact with the cluster, the bees will starve and then freeze to death in many cases. 

Lastly, many beekeepers insist upon carrying their beehive into the Winter in double and triple deep brood box configuration.  This is far too much space for the cluster to occupy and keep at a suitable temperature.  Even if the cluster is large enough to do this, they typically consume large amounts of food resources to do this and if not closely monitored to remove empty brood boxes as food resources are consumed and adding food resources as needed, will again run up against the issue of starvation and freezing to death. 

In early Spring as hives begin to brood up, leaving the hive insulation on until any danger of sudden freezes can help to significantly reduce hive losses due to sudden late hard freezes like we had last April in the 3rd week.  Once the hive has a significant amount of brood present, the bees will NOT cluster up in the event of a sudden hard freeze and will sacrifice themselves to protect the brood typically ending with the entire hive lost over night.  Even the largest and strongest hives are susceptible to this.  Ask how I know???  :oops:

As to the issue of the Flow Hive.  In my opinion, they sound good and the video's look good but then I think about how well these Flow Hives will hold up over several seasons with the bee propolizing them and the bugs that may get into them while in storage over the Winter, not to mention the prohibitively high cost.  I think I'll stick with the conventional honey super. 

Anyway........that's my humble 2 cents worth on this.   :happy:

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 12:14:13 pm »
I belong to two beekeepers associations in north Arkansas and it looks more like 10 to 15% among beekeepers with 20 or more colonies and 5+ years experience.  One beekeeper, this was his first overwinter, lost all 7 of his colonies the first week in March.  His description sounded like it was classic starvation/robbing with all 7. 

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 01:12:46 pm »
... In most states newbies have an insignificant number of hives compared to veteran beekeepers.  So if the loss is 50% state wide then the veteran beekeepers are losing them in very high numbers.  So is Arkansas's hive loss at 50% or not?  If so rethink the problem instead of pointing fingers.

Good point.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 02:40:12 pm »
Live oak,
Quote: Other factors that are causing these Winter losses and weakenings such as tracheal mites.  Most beekeepers do not treat for tracheal mites.  They are very difficult to detect visually until K-wing virus starts effecting the bees. 

When was the last time that you had tracheal mites in significant numbers to bother a hive. Our state does not see them any more. It think Pennsylvania is the same. The bees have the genetics to stop them cold.

My father in law used to have to deal with them 20 years ago in Pennsylvania but that was not a problem when he started raising bees 5 years ago and until the day he died last year.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline Live Oak

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 04:17:20 pm »
Live oak,
Quote: Other factors that are causing these Winter losses and weakenings such as tracheal mites.  Most beekeepers do not treat for tracheal mites.  They are very difficult to detect visually until K-wing virus starts effecting the bees. 

When was the last time that you had tracheal mites in significant numbers to bother a hive. Our state does not see them any more. It think Pennsylvania is the same. The bees have the genetics to stop them cold.

My father in law used to have to deal with them 20 years ago in Pennsylvania but that was not a problem when he started raising bees 5 years ago and until the day he died last year.
Jim Altmiller

They are back. 

https://www.ourcoop.com/ourcoop08/headlines/viewNews.aspx?artID=3715

They are covered towards the middle of the article.  Mike tells me that he is seeing much more than a few cases in Tennessee. 

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2019, 08:19:59 pm »
Not good but I?m pretty sure our bees fixed this problem on their own through genetics. I wonder where the bees that have it came from.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2019, 11:20:50 pm »
Live Oak thanks for the article

Tennessee experiences 80 percent hive loss past 12 months.  Article states one of the biggest problems is YouTube.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2019, 09:27:01 am »
I belong to two beekeepers associations in north Arkansas and it looks more like 10 to 15% among beekeepers with 20 or more colonies and 5+ years experience. 

Now add the significance to the number... How many hives are owned by this group compared what is outside this group and the number might rise to 15.1%.  I don't think any state has reached 50% loss.  This is just finger pointing. 
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2019, 06:11:00 pm »
Ace, I doubt Tennessee has 80 percent loss, however that is what the article printed.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2019, 09:54:44 am »
Ace, I doubt Tennessee has 80 percent loss, however that is what the article printed.
Yeah, taste a little salty.
I get an internal laughter when people point to the internet as a source of misinformation like it was created on the internet.  Misinformation existed forever in print whether it is a book, newspaper or any other form of printed material including the bible.  How many times have to heard of a "study" or research that says one thing and then another that says the exact opposite?  Video is a little bit more conclusive but even that can be faked.
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Offline herbhome

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Re: Arkansas, 50% hive loss past year.
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2019, 03:09:05 pm »
Van,

I read an article a little while back, (I can't find it at this time), that stated the Coy family was moving all the hives out of the state due to unacceptable losses they blame on dicamba. They've operated in the Jonesboro area for years. I'm unaware of their hive count , but maybe some of those reported losses are for the same reasons.
Neill

 

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