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BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: van from Arkansas on September 30, 2019, 10:22:44 pm

Title: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on September 30, 2019, 10:22:44 pm
Both hives are same: 2 deeps, langstrof 10 frame located 20 feet apart.  Both hives losing 0.5 pounds a day.



Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on September 30, 2019, 10:23:17 pm


If you look closely at the dips, the dips are just after daylight as the bees go forage the weight drops, then rises a few hours later as the bees return with their load.  The scales are accurate enough to weigh the loss of a pound+ of foragers that depart the hive same time every morning.

Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Michael Bush on October 01, 2019, 08:45:18 am
It's kind of misleading when the bottom of the chart is about 118 lbs and the top is 121 lbs.  It makes it look like they used up almost 100% their honey when they actually only used up 4% of their honey.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 01, 2019, 12:45:50 pm
Yes, Mr. Bush, agreed.  However the programmer figured a person like yourself would read the graph just as you correctly pointed out, the baseline is 104 pounds.  If zero was shown the graph would be to tall for my iPhone to display.  Are you not a computer programmer?  What would you suggest?  I can pass along your ideas.

Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Michael Bush on October 01, 2019, 04:29:26 pm
I'm not blaming you, just pointing out what I see.

>Are you not a computer programmer? 

I am.  Which is probalby why I notice that it is misleading.  I try to make sure reports give an accurate feeling of what is actually happening.

>What would you suggest?  I can pass along your ideas.

Whatever the real estate, I would make a chart show from 0 to max so you can see the actual proportions.  That's my view of how data should be presented honestly.  This certainly isn't the only instance which is why it's a pet peeve.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: BAHBEEs on October 01, 2019, 04:53:00 pm
In science land we often deal with this issue.  What is often done is a wavy break is shown in the middle of the graph with detail in the gap as to just what was not shown in order to see the highly impactful info at a scale that works.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: incognito on October 01, 2019, 11:38:40 pm
If zero was shown the graph would be to tall for my iPhone to display.  Are you not a computer programmer?  What would you suggest?  I can pass along your ideas.

Van
Option to toggle between both displays. Like heads up or north up display on a GPS. - Whatever floats your boat.
It works for me as is as long as the graph is not designed to deceive the reader.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Acebird on October 02, 2019, 08:16:36 am
That is funny Van.  Being able to read data graphically I like the way you represented it.  All the information is there.  There should be no confusion.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 02, 2019, 10:28:32 am
If zero was shown the graph would be to tall for my iPhone to display.  Are you not a computer programmer?  What would you suggest?  I can pass along your ideas.

Van
Option to toggle between both displays. Like heads up or north up display on a GPS. - Whatever floats your boat.
It works for me as is as long as the graph is not designed to deceive the reader.

Member the graphs shown on my iPhone are touch sensitive showing time and weight to the half hour.  If I display on my computer there are many options.
Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 04, 2019, 08:36:49 pm
Latest graph, losing 1 pound a day.  Has been steady at losing 1/2 pound a day.  The reason for losing more weight a day eludes me??



Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Oldbeavo on October 04, 2019, 09:23:54 pm
Our scales only read once per day at 4:30am when every thing is static. You have too much data.
Our hives can lose 1/2 to 1lb per day if there is no nectar and the bees are out searching. Brood load will alter honey usage.
In winter loses can be only 2-3 ounces per day, but no activity by the bees
Ups and down during the day can be nectar collection and then drying it back will give you a loss of weight.

Just for interest one hive gained 2lb yesterday while the other one did nothing, why? don't know, they are 160 mile away so going to see why is not an option. Scale fault or hive issue??? Will see what happens in the next few days.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 04, 2019, 09:38:47 pm
To much data, perhaps.  Weight every 1/2 hour when warm weather, then in winter every 12 hour to save 5 year battery life.  The amount of data is all figured by the computer and stored in the cloud.  So to me, amount of data is not so important.  You have a point, Beavo, all I need is a single daily reading.

On my computer, not this iPhone simple graph, I can tell what time the foragers leave the hive as there is drop in weight of the hive.  A smart hive for a dumb beekeeper is what I say.
Cheers
Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Acebird on October 05, 2019, 09:38:57 am
Too much data???  Never heard of such a thing...  A digital scale probably take 1000 readings a second and then displays an average.  It wouldn't be too accurate if it took one reading a second.  The more data the better if you are looking for trends.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Oldbeavo on October 05, 2019, 04:46:39 pm
The trend needed for a beehive is over days or a week, 30 minute weights needs too much interpretation.
The hive weights daily since being shifted to a new site are 34.7, 35.6, 37.1 kg, this is a useful trend.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 05, 2019, 05:25:56 pm
Ace, these new age digital scales measure weight by static electricity.  I have no understanding of this.  There is no spring, no counter balance, only this little plastic box called a load scale that is wired to a transmission to my iPhone.  It?s all voodoo, Greek to me, but it works.  I have no idea how, but it works.

Anybody understand this weight measured by static electricity, new age stuff???

Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: The15thMember on October 05, 2019, 07:20:40 pm
Ace, these new age digital scales measure weight by static electricity.  I have no understanding of this.  There is no spring, no counter balance, only this little plastic box called a load scale that is wired to a transmission to my iPhone.  It?s all voodoo, Greek to me, but it works.  I have no idea how, but it works.

Anybody understand this weight measured by static electricity, new age stuff???

Van
From what I understand, applying force to certain types of electrical circuits (called "load cells") can change their resistance.  The change would of course be directly proportional to the applied force (the weight on the scale), so by measuring the change in resistance, the scale is able to give the weight.  Source:  https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/fitness/digital-scale.htm   
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Nock on October 06, 2019, 08:58:41 am
Bingo^^^^^
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Acebird on October 06, 2019, 09:15:17 am
Not voodoo at all Van but the electricity is not static unless you are referring to battery power.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 15, 2019, 11:56:17 am
I started feeding, Monday, Columbus Day.



Blessings
Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Ben Framed on October 15, 2019, 12:00:22 pm
I started feeding, Monday, Columbus Day.



Blessings
Van

Wow! What a huge difference!!! I am impressed!!! How do you administer your feed Mr Van?
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Nock on October 15, 2019, 01:31:39 pm
Yuge jump.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 15, 2019, 04:11:29 pm
Community feed, 2:1 sugar syrup.  I feed in open buckets covered with packing styrofoam pieces, called peanuts, and I add sticks.  Buckets are not placed close to any hive.  I usually feed 3 each one-two gallon buckets at a time.  Works well for me and my 15 hives.
Blessings
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 15, 2019, 05:48:46 pm
My bees realize a human precedes the sugar feed.  Do they recognize me as an individual, I don?t know?

What amazes me is this:  I approached a hive, looking at the bees on the entrance and see the bees fly straight towards my feet, then hover straight upwards towards my face checking my scent, sniffing for any scent of food.  If I don?t have food, the bees return to the hive.  If I have a bucket of sugar, I am followed.

If I approach a bucket full of feeding bees I have to be watchful as the bees will not hesitate to land on me or worse, inadvertently get up my sleeve.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Nock on October 15, 2019, 06:25:50 pm
Going to get some of those out this week. Think I got some peanuts at work.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: jtcmedic on October 15, 2019, 09:11:28 pm
I used pine straw in my bucket this week  and they sucked it down no dead  I was amazed.great jump in the weight mr van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Ben Framed on October 15, 2019, 09:36:36 pm
Good Thread.....
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 15, 2019, 11:51:12 pm
I used pine straw in my bucket this week  and they sucked it down no dead  I was amazed.great jump in the weight mr van

Yes, Medic, I have heard straw works very well, hay straw that is.  I?ll take your word for the pine straw,  thanks,

Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: BAHBEEs on October 18, 2019, 12:54:12 pm
Pine bark mulch chips do well also.  My waterer during this drought that has worked great was by accident.  I had a wagon style wheelbarrow with some pine chips in it get left under a water sprinkler. the next day I noticed it was game on for bee water.  Their way have been as many as 100 at any time in their.  Should work for syrup.

Note a large pan full of pea gravel under the AC condensate drain is a must.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 19, 2019, 05:00:10 pm
Saturday, 10/19/19.  I did not feed 10/17 as I wanted the bees to cure the syrup: 2:1 sugar.
Blessings
Van



Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Nock on October 19, 2019, 10:04:10 pm
Still bringing in pollen here from somewhere. Dull yellow must be some more GR somewhere.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: van from Arkansas on October 19, 2019, 10:12:49 pm
Sometimes a fella can smell the Goldenrod if down wind of hives.  To me, gr has a sweet/bitter smell.  Unique aroma.

Van
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Nock on October 19, 2019, 11:55:31 pm
It still smells like they are. Started feeding today. I put a hurting  on yellow jackets.
Title: Re: Graph of two separate hives, losing weight everyday.
Post by: Nock on October 20, 2019, 10:16:55 pm