Comb honey. A journey of learning

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks,
Just thought I?d add a little bit more information in relation to the development of the rounds. As I said in an earlier post, the clear rounds are visually appealing but they are still plastic. I wanted to go back to where I initially started on this journey and see if I could develop the timber rounds to a point where they were easy to make and looked the part. After a bit of experimenting, I started to get acceptable results. This is how I made them.

https://youtu.be/m1J7-Rtjmso

[.30WCF]

A good sharp planner and a board of appropriate thickness will get you all the ribbons of pine or oak you want. You could get fancy and use different woods as marketing tools. I mean who wouldn?t buy Cherrywood Honey Disks?
The key here is a sharp hand planner. They should self wrap around the foundation since they will have hard curls in them.


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[gww]

Bass wood is what all the turn of the century guys used.
Cheers
gww

[Lesgold]

I like the idea of the different timber?s being used. I only use untreated pine as I can get off cuts for free. Did a bad thing though a COVID lockdown. Sold all my planes and a whole heap of other gear as I thought I would never use them enough to warrant keeping them. Pretty twisted thinking on my part. Smoothing, Jack and Tri planes all gone as I very rarely used them. That?s pretty sad for a former Woodwork teacher.

[.30WCF]

I like the idea of the different timber?s being used. I only use untreated pine as I can get off cuts for free. Did a bad thing though a COVID lockdown. Sold all my planes and a whole heap of other gear as I thought I would never use them enough to warrant keeping them. Pretty twisted thinking on my part. Smoothing, Jack and Tri planes all gone as I very rarely used them. That?s pretty sad for a former Woodwork teacher.

That?s too bad, cause you could peel ribbons off in bulk.
I don?t like eating splinters anyway. It?s kinda like fish bones. :)
What about a strip of cloth soaked in melted beeswax, wrapped around your plastic forms, once cooled peel the plastic out and insert the cloth in the frame. You could have any print from 50s checkerboard tablecloth, bee prints, to Stroheim Country Fable II. I bought some Christmas wrapping paper that looks like birch bark that could be dipped in wax and waxed to the inside of the plastic ring then with a heat gun or blow dryer separated easily by peeling the plastic mold off once filled.


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[Lesgold]

That?s an interesting interesting idea. I like the thinking behind it. All natural products as well. How do you think the wax would hold up under hive temperatures? Would it stay firm? Definitely worth looking at.

[.30WCF]

That?s an interesting interesting idea. I like the thinking behind it. All natural products as well. How do you think the wax would hold up under hive temperatures? Would it stay firm? Definitely worth looking at.

It?s what they use for their entire house.  And even if it does soften, I would imagine that fabric would still stick to the plastic if you left it on the outside of the ring. If it got that hot you would have honey rolling out of the entrance.


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[Ben Framed]

Les is there a particular reason you are not sticking with the drink bottle plastic, (food grade), rounds?

[Lesgold]

Hi Phillip,

I will be sticking to the PET as it is easy, cost effective and looks amazing. In saying that, I want to be up to speed on the timber rounds as well as I believe this is the way we should be heading long term. My intention is to change to a PET jar (750ml) as I can buy these new. From memory, these cost me about 40c each as they are a common size used here in Ozzie land. Each jar would make 3 rounds. They are slightly smaller than what I?m making now but that does not concern me as I think there is a market for them. If I could buy the soft drink bottles new and in small quantities, I would stick with them. You will probably have more luck in your part of the world. Getting back to the timber rounds - A lot of my customers are health conscious and very anti plastic. I can understand where they are coming from.  I sell honey in plastic pails, plastic jars and glass jars. There is a large proportion of those people who prefer glass. (As do I) Glass is however, more expensive to buy, difficult to post and quite heavy. Anyway, enough of my rant. The timber rounds will take more time to produce but they will have that rustic and natural appeal that many people are chasing. It was interesting selling honey at my local markets on Sunday. I had some rounds and rectangular timber combs for sale. The rectangular timber frames of comb attracted the most attention by far.

The big issue I had with the first batch of timber rounds was the shape. They were close to being round but I wasn?t  completely happy with the way they turned out. If I were to assess them, I would give them 6 1/2 out of 10. Cramping them at the join wasn?t good enough. I wanted the veneer to be pushed against the former all the way round. The solution was so simple it made me smile. I reckon I got lucky with this  technique. I think you will like it.

https://youtu.be/H_85zNOkMrY

Cheers

Les

[.30WCF]

Looks like you got your solution. Nice job.
That piece of PVC gave me another idea though. If you had some pipe that was a half inch larger, and cut a gap in the side, if it would make enough spring tension when compressed to press the wood all the way around.
I don?t know if that makes sense. A notch cut out would make a round O look like a C, that when squeezed down would close the gap and make an O that wanted to return to a C. You could maybe make even more jigs by using a full circle of PVC for the outside form, and the C piece for the inside form.
Looking good though.

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[.30WCF]

Another thing is you may be able to cut the wood for an exact fit and not need the overlap and glue.
Once the ends are butted up for an exact fit and pressed into the frame, would the drawn comb keep  the band shut?


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[Ben Framed]

>A lot of my customers are health conscious and very anti plastic.

That seems to be the trend with many. Even with wood rounds, the comb honey will continue be placed and sold or gifted in plastic containers anyway, if our comb honey is placed in similar containers featured in the picture of NigelP? The comb will still be in plastic. I am not attempting to discourage your efforts for a different round as I am sure you are enjoying the journey of the process of experimentation and I am enjoying the pleasure of your efforts as well. Perhaps is also has something to do with you being, an you described yourself, an old wood man at heart.
 

[The15thMember]

>A lot of my customers are health conscious and very anti plastic.

That seems to be the trend with many. Even with wood rounds, the comb honey will continue be placed and sold or gifted in plastic containers anyway, if our comb honey is placed in similar containers featured in the picture of NigelP? The comb will still be in plastic. I am not attempting to discourage your efforts for a different round as I am sure you are enjoying the journey of the process of experimentation and I am enjoying the pleasure of your efforts as well. Perhaps is also has something to do with you being, an you described yourself, an old wood man at heart.
 

Sorry that I'm kind of butting in and out here.  I can't seem to keep caught up with this thread.  But I think there is a big difference in consumers' minds between something that was produced in plastic as opposed to something that is simply sold in plastic.  I'm not saying that's a valid concern, because there is a whole host of variables that goes into what plastics are safe for what uses, but I think that difference has an effect on the purchasing public. 

[Ben Framed]

But I think there is a big difference in consumers' minds between something that was produced in plastic as opposed to something that is simply sold in plastic.

With the reasoning of todays world, I would not be surprised. 

Whether Plastic or wood these look good Les?

[Lesgold]

I?m pleased to see that the conversation and the debate continues. Is there a right answer to this question in relation to the use of plastics? Personally I don?t think there is a perfect solution at this stage. What we are doing right now is a good start. At least are having the conversation and I?m sure that there will be other ideas people out there that will have ?light bulb? moments and come up with brilliant design concepts to help us change and improve the way that we do things. You nailed it Phillip with the packaging comment. When governments and the general public demand it, there will be changes in this area. While I was away, I had some down time and started doing some research. I have emailed two packaging companies in Sydney and asked if they could send me some samples of containers made from what is called PLA (it is a plant based, compostable plastic) The items that I looked at were clear, rigid containers. There may be some potential in this area. I?ll raise it in the comb honey packaging thread when the samples come through.

.30WCF, some good ideas there. When the steamed timber is removed from the former, it springs out in a manner that you were describing. When I first began experimenting with timber strips, I tried butting the ends together and I couldn?t get the shape quite right. With the new method of cramping the steamed strips, I should revisit this and see how it performs. Thanks for that idea.

[Ben Framed]

I have emailed two packaging companies in Sydney and asked if they could send me some samples of containers made from what is called PLA (it is a plant based, compostable plastic)

Awesome! Please keep us updated on this.

If possible taking it one step further; A plant base plastic round would be the 'icing on the cake'.

Phillip

[Lesgold]

Pretty exciting stuff. I?ll see if I can get a screen shot of the takeaway container they put up on their website.  Getting the round made from this material  (and packaging to suit) would me amazing.

Sorry to keep chopping and changing thoughts throughout the thread, I just wanted to show you how this idea evolved. This is basically as far as I?ve come in the development of this round comb. It?s now time for testing and refinement. I sure some of you will continue to redesign and improve on what I started. Hopefully your ideas will be posted. All of the thoughts and comments mentioned will looked at closely and many of them will be tested over time. I was going to take off some honey today but it looks like there may be rain coming. If there is a break in the weather, I will jump into a hive that contains the first two timber rounds frames and take a couple of photos. One of the frames contains rounds with thin foundation and the other utilises starter strips. Hopefully they will be drawn out and contain some honey. I?ll pop down to the shed and grab one of the rounds with a starter strip installed and photograph it. I?ve come up with a new way of adding a starter strip to any type of frame. This method was one of my light bulb moments. I?ll be back shortly.

[Ben Framed]

I can't seem to keep caught up with this thread.

Member, I highly recommend you go back and catch up.  It's well worth the effort. 

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

Sorry to keep chopping and changing thoughts throughout the thread, I just wanted to show you how this idea evolved. This is basically as far as I've come in the development of this round comb.

Les your enthusiasm is contagious. This is a well laid out topic with a wealth of information. I appreciate you filling in the blanks. Please do not hesitate in sharing.. Keep up the good work!

[Lesgold]

Phillip,

In relation to our discussion on bee access holes and possible solutions, there may need for us to work on that idea and develop it. I did however, have something else on the go that may change our thinking. As I said before, the first rounds that I made utilised starter strips and you quickly picked up the bee access issue when you saw photographs. When I use thin foundation to fill the cavity, the problem disappears. My next thought was to have a circular starter strip running all the way around the inside of the round. This would be a tremendous guide for the bees and also give them wax to play with to help fill the gap. In other words, I wanted a washer of wax to fit into the round. I mentally designed different sized cutters to perform the task but eventually dismissed the idea due to the extra time it would take. I then looked at what resources I already had to see if there was some way I could utilise the plugs that I had made for positioning the foundation in the round. It  then just hit me. It was so simple. I grabbed some cling wrap from the kitchen and placed a piece over the plug. I then pressed a ring over the plug and then painted molten cappings wax around the intersection of the plug and the round. When the wax cooled, the cling wrap was pulled away from the round. It was so quick. The results blew me away. Here is a pic of one that?s ready to go into a frame:

Pretty cool hey. I immediately tried this technique on a few styles of frame and placed them into hives. The bees were like kids in a lolly shop. They loved the wax an started drawing it overnight. I?m hoping for good results when I check today.  This technique could be used on any style of frame. Even the bars a top bar hive could be set up using this technique.  I hope this technique gives you some ideas.

Cheers

Les