Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Lesgold on November 06, 2022, 12:33:10 am
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Hi folks,
Just got back from selling a bit of honey at the markets. While sitting and watching potential customers walking past, I started thinking about how I could attract more attention. I thought that if I could get people to stop and ask questions, the potential to sell honey would increase. With that in mind, I was thinking of making a single frame observation hive to have on display. A frame could be taken from an established hive and placed into the observation hive for no longer than about 6 hours and then returned to the mother hive. I?ve never done this before so I?m after a bit of advice from the wizards on this site. Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Les
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Les I like your thinking out of the box. I do not know how the bees would react to not being able to come and go. All observation hives Ive seen have a way in and out. What would you do to over come this? Or would you need to if you have only a queen and nurse bees on one frame? Ventilation must be considered as well. I for one like the idea! I have little doubt this would increase your honey sales, not only honey, Lip Balm, etc and even colonies as well! (If you so desire).
Phillip
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Thanks Phillip. I was thinking of one frame including bees. Not sure if I could use a frame of brood with the queen and bees attached or just a frame of honey with bees taken directly from a small hive. I am unsure if the bees could keep the brood warm or not. Just looking for ideas at this point. The frame would have clear acrylic sides and ventilation holes so there should be no issues from that perspective. It would be nice to be able to educate the general public in relation to the internal structure of a hive. The markets run for 4 hours so the bees would only be absent from the main hive for about 6 hours. I?m sure there are many members of the forum who could advise me.
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Les,
I have two observations hives. One is in the house with permanent residents and the other is used for school demonstrations and for market displays.
The second one is a five frame Nuc that includes a feeder frame. One brood frame is placed in the top with the queen on it, everyone wants to see the queen, and the other four frames are in the bottom plus the feeder frame. You keep a Nuc hive available just for this observation hive if you are going to use it on a regular basis.
I used tork screws on all of the fasteners so that little Johnny couldn?t remove them , while I was distracted, and fill the classroom full of bees.
When I get up I will take some pictures and post them.
Jim Altmiller
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We use an observation hive similar to this one at our state fair booth each year.
https://www.mannlakeltd.com/gifts-misc/educational-tools/observation-hive/
Several folks have them and lend them for the fair.
They will go for three days or so without needing changed.
Works just as Jim said. Only you need to watch that the drunks don't tip it to get a better look for the queen. :wink:
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Thanks Phillip. I was thinking of one frame including bees. Not sure if I could use a frame of brood with the queen and bees attached or just a frame of honey with bees taken directly from a small hive. I am unsure if the bees could keep the brood warm or not. Just looking for ideas at this point. The frame would have clear acrylic sides and ventilation holes so there should be no issues from that perspective. It would be nice to be able to educate the general public in relation to the internal structure of a hive. The markets run for 4 hours so the bees would only be absent from the main hive for about 6 hours. I?m sure there are many members of the forum who could advise me.
Thanks Les, I think Jim has hit the nail on the head (at least answering my concerns) and hopefully yours as well? Good stuff!!
Phillip
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Les,
Here are the pictures that I promised:
Here you can see where the viable frame goes. Notice the two sponge bowls in the bottom. That is for when I only use one frame of bees.
Here you can see the entrance door. You can keep the bees in this box all week between sales. I would keep it under a roof and remove the queen excluder.
Here is the view of the bottom. They need good bottom ventilation for transport.
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The best way to increase sales besides using the observation hive is to give out samples. We use either a plastic spoon and a honey bear bottle or pour a little honey on a cracker from the honey bear jar.
I usually get 75-80% sales of people who taste my honey.
Use both the observation hive and a he samples to get the best results.
Good luck.
Jim Altmiller
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A lot of people around here use the style of observation hive that Jim and jimineycricket recommended for public events. Jim, yours is beautiful, by the way! I'm assuming you made that one yourself. I just talked to someone at the county fair last month who had the exact Mann Lake one that jiminey posted, and she was saying how easy to use and great it is compared to the previous style she had.
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I also use the mann lake one. And Im happy with it. Ive only kept bees in it for a little over a week though. I just move the frame from topside to down below every night, opened the door,and put a nuc lid on top. One thing was because the thing was going out in the afternoon I put wet sponges in for water. and if your closing it up after the sun comes up you loose a little field force.
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A lot of people around here use the style of observation hive that Jim and jimineycricket recommended for public events.
We use an observation hive similar to this one at our state fair booth each year.
https://www.mannlakeltd.com/gifts-misc/educational-tools/observation-hive/
Several folks have them and lend them for the fair.
They will go for three days or so without needing changed.
Works just as Jim said. Only you need to watch that the drunks don't tip it to get a better look for the queen. :wink:
I didn't realize Man Lake sold anything like this Jimineycricket. Thank you for posting this link.
Phillip
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Thanks so much Jim and everyone else who contributed. I never even thought of heading down the path of a nuc box. It does have merit as it means that the whole hive can be kept together and therefor the brood will be kept warm by the main hive. The sub floor ventilation is a good idea. Jim, you did say that you do use one frame of bees at times. Do you just pull a brood frame from an established hive in that situation? The sponge is also a good idea if the bees are to be locked up. You did a great job on building that display hive. I was a woodwork teacher for 36 years and if I had to assess your cabinet making skills, you would be awarded top marks.
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Jim, very nice observation hive!!
Do you by chance have plans for this one??
Beautiful wood, what is it, teak?
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Hi Folks,
My club is an integral part of the Massachusetts Marshfield Fair every August. We have as many as three observation hives, with queens, over a nine-day period. The bees can get out to forage through a tube through the wall. It's hard on the bees, but it's educational. It is THE FOCUS of attention when people walk into the Bee Barn.
Personally, I've used an observation hive only once. Too hard on my bees in hot weather. Kids are unpredictable when you're the only person manning the table and giving change. Everyone wants to talk, talk, talk about the bees. Never again.
I've tried samples. Sticky and messy. Open honey also attracts more honey bees around the area as well as yellow jackets.
I dress the table up with a variety of jars, placed just so, little colorful pamphlets, a banner, and photos.
I find it much more enjoyable when I split a table with a close friend. The banter and joking, and explanations are a riot. We exaggerate, lie, compliment and, well,... flirt! Compliment the men on their good taste in women. The men will buy whatever the woman tells them to buy. They're happy. You're happy. You've made a sale. Old men beekeepers can get away with a lot.
Show them BIG photos. I have a spiral book.
A really good line is: We have special queens at home that are as big a chickens.
I just tried to attach two photos, but they were 600 to 800 kb's. too large to post.
If I email them to anyone here, can you cut them down?
Easy set up. Easy break down. Count your money and go home.
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I just tried to attach two photos, but they were 600 to 800 kb's. too large to post.
If I email them to anyone here, can you cut them down?
I can do it for you, Sal. I'll PM you.
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Jim, very nice observation hive!!
Do you by chance have plans for this one??
Beautiful wood, what is it, teak?
G3,
Thanks, I do not have the plans for this observation hive. I built it many many years ago for doing bee presentations for Judy?s pre school class.
The design is basically a nuc with a screen bottom and a top with slots cut in the wood for the glass to slide in.
Jim Altmiller
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Jim, did you use glass or clear acrylic for the windows?
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Jim, did you use glass or clear acrylic for the windows?
Clear acrylic because I was designing it for use in schools.
On my permanent observation hive, when I first built it I used acrylic. Years later I replaced it with glass. It is easier to clean the wax off of it with a flat razor blade. After years of use I could not get ithe acrylic clean.
Jim Altmiller
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Jim Tew has hauled one frame observation hives around for decades. At the bottom of this page there is a simple design for an observation hive that you could easily scale down to either one deep or two medium frames:
https://bushfarms.com/beesobservationhives.htm#working
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Thanks guys. You have given me a good starting point for a design. I have another market stall in less than two weeks so I might get in and build a mock up and see how it works. If I can, I will grab a frame of brood from a hive and keep it in the observation hive for the day and then return it in the afternoon. Initially I will not include the queen in the test just in case I mess up in some manner.
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The nice thing about a two frame hive is you can give them a frame of brood and bees and the queen, and another frame of honey. This has advantages both in being able to show people the difference and keeping the bees fed.
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That?s a good idea Michael. My initial thinking was to have a frame of brood with honey around the top but I now may have to reconsider. Thanks for that point.
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Yes even people who know little about bees like to see the queen. At least I did when I was a small child looking at an observation hive at the Fair....
Phillip
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Yes even people who know little about bees like to see the queen. At least I did when I was a small child looking at an observation hive at the Fair....
Phillip
A year or two before I got bees, when I was still researching them, we were visiting a farm that had a semi-permanent observation hive set up in one of their barns. I found the queen on one of the frames and showed her to my family, and they thought it was so neat that I had found her. Those were the first bees I'd ever really interacted with, and it made me want to get my own bees so bad!
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I have an Ulster observation hive. What I do a day or 2 before a fair is split one of my 5 over 5 frame nucs. You can also take a few frames out of a full hive but it's much easier to recombine nucs. I place the split a few yards away with the queen. The foragers return to the original location. The next day you have a calm hive with mostly nurse bees and the queen in the observation hive with a frame feeder. It makes it a lot easier for people to find the marked queen. I have seen observation hives with too many foragers, and it can look a bit strange (for a beekeeper anyway). The foragers will actually move together in a swirling pattern on the glass trying to find a way out.
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Great idea Beesnweeds. That?s a logical way to do it. Thank you. I will try that in just over a week if I can build a single frame observation hive in time. I?ll post a couple of pics of the build.
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The other nice thing about the style I have at the bottom of my Observation Hive page is that there is no where for the queen to hide. I have a Tew hive from Brushy Mt (RIP) but there are many places she can hide and she does even though it's just around the edges.
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It always seems that queens can hide away in some remote corner of a brood box and make themselves invisible when ever you want to find them. They always seem to pop up on the centre of a frame if you are not looking for them.
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Thought I?d better make a start on this observation hive as the markets are coming up in just over a week. I saw one online that was really simple so I decided to use it as a basis for the design. I?m thinking that I?ll make this initial hive so that it holds just one frame with all components screwed together so that I can pull it apart for cleaning or modification if required. I used an assembled frame to gauge my dimensions and clearances.
The first step was to cut a base and two sides to the dimensions required and then run groves on the faces to hold the acrylic sheeting. The acrylic was then trimmed to fit.
A lid, base , rails and support legs were then cut to size.
Now that all components are cut to size, screw holes will be drilled and the hive will be assembled. I?ll get onto that tomorrow as we have a nice day coming up so I might head into the bush and look for a bit of gold. I?ll post a photo when the hive is assembled.
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We have been selling at farmers markets for many years. If your presentation is excellent then you will get the interested customers.
We do provide samples and use half a paper straw to dip the honey. One thing that reduces mess is to do the first one for the customer and show them how to wind up the string of honey that makes the mess.
Most of the markets i would not want a discussion piece like a display hive as it will take up too much time when you should be dealing with paying customers.
Tyre kickers are bad enough without giving them an excuse.
Quality and variety of honey is what will build your market business.
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I can see your point Oldbeavo. I?m lucky that my wife is with me which sorts out that issue. The display will get a lot more people to stop, which I think is important. I like the idea of sampling honey. That is the number one way of getting people to buy. Once people try a nice honey, you end up with a customer for life.
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Got the hive assembled. The top is held in place with wing nuts. Just pulled everything to pieces and gave it a rough sand. All exterior surfaces have been given a coat of Danish oil. Inside surfaces will be kept raw. One final coat of oil tomorrow and then then hive will be assembled. I have drilled holes in the sides for ventilation. Mesh will be stapled in place when the hive is ready for assembly.
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Looks great Les!! One alternative to polycarbonate or plexiglass if they become scratched up or fogged is laminated glass. Like a car windshield its two layers of glass with vinyl in the middle. Any glass shop can cut it to size.
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Good idea Beesnweeds. The cost could be interesting but you are right about the scratching. Will need to keep the rich girls with their diamond rings away from the bees?.
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I also use the mann lake one. And Im happy with it. Ive only kept bees in it for a little over a week though. I just move the frame from topside to down below every night, opened the door,and put a nuc lid on top. One thing was because the thing was going out in the afternoon I put wet sponges in for water. and if your closing it up after the sun comes up you loose a little field force.
Also have this one, and like it. I wish I could adjust the glass closer to the frame, the bees will go double deep on it (bees on the comb, bees on the glass) and makes it hard to see. Best would be if I could adjust the glass out for frame installation and then back in toward the frame for observation. I don't have time to mess with it though. What I do have time to mess with, and the thing is on my workbench, is to put a "piezo undersaddle" guitar pickup underneath the ears of the frames, run the wires out to a pre-amp and headphone amplifier, and let the kids listen in to the communication on the combs. I also have a pluggable web-cam that I want to install on an arm to look at the observation frame and run that out to a larger screen. I've got the parts for that, but what I really need is some anti-glare coating on the glass. Camera only shows reflections of everything else.
I don't know what it does for sales, but people really do like it. If I was going to keep the colony installed for several weeks, I would remove the QX from under the observation frame so she could keep a viable colony going.
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What I do have time to mess with, and the thing is on my workbench, is to put a "piezo undersaddle" guitar pickup underneath the ears of the frames, run the wires out to a pre-amp and headphone amplifier, and let the kids listen in to the communication on the combs.
Super cool! That really gives people a different kind of window into the hive, especially since the bees are normally in darkness in a standard hive.
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Matt that is a great idea.
Your same idea might be of interest to BeeScientist in relation to the TOPIC: Does anyone have any bee sound recordings?
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That is really taking things to another level. Excellent thinking.
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The project is finally finished. One more week until the markets. I will test some of the ideas mentioned and see how it works in a day or so. Will report back when I try it out.
Cheers
Les
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Nice job Les.
Phillip
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I like that you can see all the way from side to side. Less places for the queen to hide.
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Finally had a chance to add a test frame of bees to the observation hive. Took the frame from a nuc and decided to leave the queen in the main hive during this test. I marked the queen so that she would be clearly visible for anyone who wants to have a look on the weekend. The bees seam well behaved at the moment. A sponge with some water was also added. If all goes well, I will return this frame in 3 hours. For sundays market, I will ensure that the queen is present.
Cheers
Les
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That looks phenomenal, Les! I'd stop at a stand with that set up! :happy:
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I agree!
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Thanks guys. It?s actually quite interesting to listen to the girls. With no queen, they are crying. The noise is very loud and cyclical. They will be quietly going about their business for a while and then the noise level will increase dramatically for a minute or so. I will give them another half an hour or so and then return the frame to the nuc. Looks like everything is working according to plan. It will be interesting to see how the brood copes with this upset.
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Les have you made a video featuring your new Observation Hive? (along with bees inside?)
Phillip
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No I haven?t Phillip. A good idea though. Might leave that until I refine the technique. There have been some good ideas presented here and I want to experiment and try some of them over a couple of months until I have all of my own questions answered. Some examples include:
- stress on the queen and the bees in the single frame hive. How will they cope and respond?
- will brood chill or overheat in a small confined space in a 5 hour period.
- will the bees continue to perform their normal hive tasks when disturbed or behave in an erratic manner.
- how will the rest of the main hive behave when the queen has been removed?
- what other areas have I not yet considered?
Time will tell. Some of my questions already appear to be answered but a one off test doesn?t really prove much.
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Thats beautiful Les.
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Your hive looks great. I have only one question that no one has addressed yet. When pulling a frame to take to the market, won't the bees without the queen start queen cells? And what will happen when the queen is reintroduced?
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Good question cao. I should be able to give some feedback on that in about a weeks time. I am hoping that the absence of the queen for about 6 hours will not get the rest of the hive too excited. Time will tell.
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Cao,
The bees will start making a new queen but as soon as he puts the frame back in the hive the bees will either remove the queen larvae or start feeding them pollen bread depending on the age of the brood.
Jim Altmiller
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What a disaster. A howling wind came up at the markets and almost blew the stall away. Had to swing on the gazebo to hold it on the ground. At one stage a gust picked up containers of honey like feathers and moved them all over the table. The observation hive was unceremoniously picked up and flung to the ground landing on my wife?s foot. The bees who had behaved themselves very well to this point, became quite unsettled for about 30 minutes. In the end, the roof of the gazebo was removed and the hive was partially covered to protect it from direct sunlight. There wasn?t many patrons present due to the windy conditions. All that being said, there was considerable interest in the hive and the kids loved the free honey samples. I reckon my honey sales were up by about 50% over the last markets. Took the hive home and returned the bees to the mother hive. I will monitor their progress in a weeks time.
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All of that and your sales where still up 50 percent! Very good sign of what the possibilities may prove to be!
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Well my goal this winter is to build a nice 1 frame observation hive. The mann lake one is good for the fair etc. But its to bulky and heavy in my opinion to be consistently moving around.
I like the idea of the single frame much more for short term viewing.
Thanks Les
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Checked the nuc that I pinched a frame from on Sunday for the markets. Everything looked OK. Saw the queen wandering around and also freshly laid eggs. No signs of any issues with the brood or the queen. No signs of queen cells being developed. Pretty happy that it all worked out. I will have markets again in a week and a half so the process will be repeated but using a different hive to share the stress around.
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The single frame ones where you can see the end bars (so the queen can't hide) are handy for many reasons. Weight being a big one. Since I run all mediums, though, I find two mediums frames to be better. I need to build that one. I have the one frame deep, (or Dadant deep or one medium and one extra shallow...), though the queen has places she can hide in mine, and I don't currently run any extra shallow frames in my hives...
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Checked the nuc that I pinched a frame from on Sunday for the markets. Everything looked OK. Saw the queen wandering around and also freshly laid eggs. No signs of any issues with the brood or the queen. No signs of queen cells being developed. Pretty happy that it all worked out. I will have markets again in a week and a half so the process will be repeated but using a different hive to share the stress around.
Sounds good. I like the idea that you will use a different hive for the next go-round for the reason you stated. Hopefully the Weather will be pleasant this time..
Phillip
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Round two with the observation hive at the markets. This time the weather was terrific and the bees were well behaved. The queen would often hide herself for a couple of minutes and then re appear on the frame. People were quite impressed with the way that the she continued her royal duties and was regularly seen laying eggs. Adults as well as kids often stood and watched for minutes on end. Honey and comb honey sales were quite good considering the small crowd present. Honey tasting definitely increased sales and often people purchased extra after sampling the product.
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Congratulation on a job well done Les, as well as success..
Phillip
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I have always found that samples help a lot. Also having different color honey next to each other gets them asking questions about that. They usually don't know that not all honey tastes alike. In fact it's often very much not alike. Some pollen gets people asking questions as well. I don't sell much of it, but having it on the table is one more thing to get them interested. Plus, of course, beeswax, comb honey, chunk honey, propolis etc.
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Christmas markets were on yesterday. Pinched a frame of bees and popped it into the observation hive.
This particular queen was a show off. She wanted to be seen and performed well for the crowds. The kids loved the display and asked lots of questions.
Plenty of tourists around and the sales were really good. People loved sampling the honey and most who tried it bought some. The comb honey was really popular and sold out before the end of the day. Hopefully the girls can produce some more comb soon.
Cheers
Les
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Hi Folks,
I thought I?d give one last report on the observation hive. It has been used at the markets five times now and has been an outstanding success. The hive has been a tremendous teaching aid for all things related to bees and honey. I knew that it would be popular with kids but was pleasantly surprised as to the interest shown by adults. After looking and asking questions, most people were really keen to sample honey. This was generally a trigger for honey purchases. The markets are held every two weeks and I removed a frame of bees on a rotation basis from two small hives. I have noticed that the disruption has held the hives back a bit but apart from that, there has been no adverse effects from removing bees and a queen for half a day. I now place lead diving weights on on the back legs of the frame just in case a big wind comes up and blows the frame over. It did occur once but it was a wild wind blowing that day. We position our stall so that the frame is constantly shaded. I did make a cover for the back and top of the hive if the sun was going to be an issue but haven?t had to use it. In my area, I could possibly use the observation hive all year round but there would be a few days where the temperature could be as low as 50 degrees F. I would also be wary of disturbing the brood nest during the cold months. We normally travel during the winter so that problem has been solved for us.
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The difference the observation hive makes at the markets came through clearly two weeks ago. The bees were left at home as it was cold and wet early in the morning. The day cleared and people came to look around as they usually do. The numbers of people stopping and looking at our stall was down considerably. Honey sales crashed by 60%. It was really noticeable. I asked a neighbouring stall holder how they went and they said that they did quite well. The bees were back again on Sunday and sales more than doubled. People want to stop, look and ask questions.
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Anything that gets people to stop and talk makes a huge difference in sales.
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This is probably the best way to get that marketing attention and you get the opportunity to make friends along the way. Win win! Thumbs Us Les Thsi has been a great topic. Keep up updated.
Phillip
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It?s been 11 months since the observation hive was constructed. During that time there have been a few people trying to sell honey at the local markets but they have all given up due to a lack of sales. They find it difficult to compete as the display my wife and I put on makes a real difference. No one else has tried a display hive and they have difficulty in stopping people to look at their produce. We have now built up a large number of regular customers who come straight to our stand to purchase honey. Kids and adults love to stop, look and sample honey. Using rustic label designs and presentation packages has drawn a lot of people in. At last weekends markets, another marketing weapon was utilised. My 9 year old grand daughter was put in charge of talking to customers. She did a great job talking to the public about the bees, giving out samples and managing sales. She was a real asset and made the day an enjoyable experience for everyone involved. In relation to the health of the bees, there has been no obvious issues. Having a frame taken from a hive once a month does hinder their progress slightly but I am quite happy to keep these hives a little smaller and sacrifice their honey making potential.
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Congratulations.
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I know y'all are very proud of her Les. Sounds like she was the darling, of not only your booth but, of the entire market! At nine years old she must be very mature and full of confidence. At that age I would have been in a corner looking and watching. lol
As Michael Bush, I say congratulations to you and yours for your successful marketing strategy which is coming full circle.... Now when you add pollen to the public eye, a public who does not yet realize the value of it with the contents vitamins, enzymes, minerals etc., that should further spark their interest, opening the door to more interesting talk about our friend the Honey Bee while adding a new avenue of conversation! If your granddaughter reads this I would like to say to her: Good job young lady! Thanks for helping you family and learning and sharing so much about Honey Bees! You must be a very smart Young Lady! Keep up the good work!!
Phillip
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She is a darling. It was the event she was really looking forward to. She had her mum buy a necklace with a bee on it, two bee rings and a bee happy tee shirt. You are right about the pollen. I might trap a bit over the next week, dry it and take it to the next market for people to look at and even sample. I will put a couple of propolis traps on for a few weeks and gather enough for Christmas markets. Michael is right about the pollen and propolis. People are sponges for information when it comes to honey and bees. They are genuinely interested and ask lots of questions.
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I might trap a bit over the next week, dry it and take it to the next market for people to look at and even sample.
Be aware that it's not very good to eat by itself. It varies flower to flower, but it's often kind of bitter straight up. Just might want to warn people about that, or perhaps have something for them to taste it with. I'm not exactly sure what would be a good thing to pair with it though, for this sort of application.
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Just running through here but the one I liked at the fair was a simple hinged box with acrylic sides and a kind of shelf inside that the frame hung on. The latches at the top of the box had little locks on them so the miscreants couldn't fool with it and the box had sturdy feet on the bottom.
As handy as you are, I bet you can knock out something in a couple of hours :grin:
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I might trap a bit over the next week, dry it and take it to the next market for people to look at and even sample.
Be aware that it's not very good to eat by itself. It varies flower to flower, but it's often kind of bitter straight up. Just might want to warn people about that, or perhaps have something for them to taste it with. I'm not exactly sure what would be a good thing to pair with it though, for this sort of application.
In my opinion pollen is more so for the nuternatual value of it.... That would be the focus of the conversation if it can be steered in that direction... Of course interest in taste is sure to be in the conversations.
Phillip
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Hi Kathy,
Kids have been really good so far. To remove the lid and expose the bees, two wing nuts would have to be removed, washers then taken off and the lid would need to be lifted uniformly to allow it to move up and over the threaded rod that holds everything together. I would be negligent in my duty of care if that was allowed to happen as it takes a bit of time to do. My biggest issue is little kids with ice creams in their hand pointing at the acrylic sheets in excitement.
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Lol. Window cleaner and a rag :grin: