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Author Topic: Cyber Ransom  (Read 972 times)

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2021, 02:44:51 pm »
When I was a boy, there was a local fellow who made the newspapers by adding a windmill to his backyard with a 12 volt generator attached. This ran to a large amount of batteries, which powered his entire home as long as the batteries stayed charged and they did as long as the wind would blow. I do not remember how many hours the system would continue putting out electricity enough electricity after the wind would stop blowing. He later said his problem was battery replacement expense. Now days we can rebuild our own batteries as show on youtube. So if he still had the system, he might be in (tall cotton), as long as had an adequate supply of breeze or wind. 
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2021, 05:46:59 pm »
The cost of storing electricity has always been the pitfall for off grid.  Todays technology is different.  You don't store it you pump it into the grid and then use it when the power source is not available.  We Americans are such power consuming hogs we will never put in what we take out on an individual basis.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2021, 12:11:54 am »
Quote
We Americans are such power consuming hogs we will never put in what we take out on an individual basis.

Fortunately, for the moment, our access to power does not depend on us putting anything back in.  There are a lot of places that have had to cut back on buy backs because there was too much power generated.

There are two things that changed the world markedly and for the better.  They allowed people to produce and share in ways never seen in the world before.  they raised the standard of living in just a few years beyond anyones dreams.  One was the development of electricity and the grid, and the other was the development of the combustion engine. 

Both are now in danger and if you think electric cars are the way to go, you ought to be thinking about the production and protection of electricity. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2021, 12:24:58 am »
Quote
One was the development of electricity and the grid, and the other was the development of the combustion engine. 
Both are now in danger and if you think electric cars are the way to go, you ought to be thinking about the production and protection of electricity.

So true!
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2021, 12:33:50 am »
Quote
One was the development of electricity and the grid, and the other was the development of the combustion engine. 
Both are now in danger and if you think electric cars are the way to go, you ought to be thinking about the production and protection of electricity.

So true!

One slip on the banana peel in that circumstance (power grid), along with all electric cars; Then its back to bicycles and the horse & carriage... We no longer even have the backup of steam engine trains! We need strong Constitutional American leadership!  Sad




                                                                                                                                                                                .
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 01:50:21 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2021, 08:19:35 am »
There are a lot of places that have had to cut back on buy backs because there was too much power generated.
This happens because new technology moves rapidly and the power companies ignored the technology or were slow to react.  No individual can produce more power then they use.  However the cost of maintaining the grid will go up with individuals supplying some of their own power.

Quote
Both are now in danger and if you think electric cars are the way to go, you ought to be thinking about the production and protection of electricity.

Yes, these would be good social programs.  Most conservatives would take the attitude that they should sink or swim on their own. :tongue:
BTW it won't take long for taxes to show up at the electric "pump".
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2021, 08:26:15 am »

One slip on the banana peel in that circumstance (power grid), along with all electric cars;
                                                                                                                                                                               .
The typical use for an electric car is for short run commutes.  It is fairly easy to charge batteries with wind and sun power.  The grid is a convenience not a requirement.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2021, 09:28:20 am »
Quote
The grid is a convenience not a requirement.

If these cyber crooks,(pirates), were to hit the grid as Kathys concern; unfortunately we might realize just how much a requirement the grid really is. I for one do not see the grid as a convenience, but indeed, a requirement. At the least a requirement that happens to be convenient.  Hopefully it is well protected.

Added question, is our electrical power grid hooked up with Canadas in any way? 
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2021, 10:40:10 am »
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2021, 11:09:55 am »
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The grid is a convenience not a requirement.

I have heard people say this before.  Go even 2 days with no use of electricity for anything and then come back and tell me we don't need it.  Nothing works without it.  Now, technically, you might be right.  a segment of the population would survive without electricity.  What do you think their lives would look like?

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2021, 12:41:06 pm »
The cost of storing electricity has always been the pitfall for off grid.  Todays technology is different.
We had a guy from a solar company come out for a consultation a week or two ago, and he was telling us about this new bidirectional-charging F-150 that Ford just announced.  The truck can be charged by your house electric like a normal electric car, but it can also function as a battery and charge your house in case of an outage.  This solar guy was really excited about this because with solar, instead of having a battery array, you could instead just purchase this truck, which would also benefit you in terms of transportation as opposed to batteries which just sit there, and so be far more cost effective. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2021, 01:07:56 pm »
On the surface many things may sound good. A deep dig will often find questions. I have seen on YouTube in foreign Third World countries how to rebuild regular 12 V batteries, including brand new lead plates and brand new connection heads for almost nothing. Now consider the following.

I had a swarm call from a fellow who is a Ford dealership owner. The man was very nice and very kind.  He would not let me leave to go home unless I would go to lunch with him. He took me to a very fancy very nice Italian lunch spot in his hometown. He said Phillip do you know what this pick up truck retails for in which we are riding? I did not know. $74,000 he replied. He went on to tell me the first pick up truck he ever sold also Ford was $2,700.

This adventure was two years ago. I have no idea what this new fancy F150 will cost. Even if the price has not changed, $74,000 will buy a lot of batteries. Especially if a person already has a late model vehicle with years of life left. Also one must consider the Expensive amount of fuel it would take to run electricity from a pick up truck to their home. Plus the wear and tear of engine wear.  This Ford might do in a pinch and I take it that is what you mean. These are just food for thought statements.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2021, 01:21:45 pm »
Adding, if this new Ford is totally electric, then wouldn?t we sort of be like a dog chasing its tail? 😊😀
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2021, 02:28:24 pm »
Adding, if this new Ford is totally electric, then wouldn?t we sort of be like a dog chasing its tail? 😊😀
Not with solar, which is what we are considering. 

On the surface many things may sound good. A deep dig will often find questions. I have seen on YouTube in foreign Third World countries how to rebuild regular 12 V batteries, including brand new lead plates and brand new connection heads for almost nothing. Now consider the following.

I had a swarm call from a fellow who is a Ford dealership owner. The man was very nice and very kind.  He would not let me leave to go home unless I would go to lunch with him. He took me to a very fancy very nice Italian lunch spot in his hometown. He said Phillip do you know what this pick up truck retails for in which we are riding? I did not know. $74,000 he replied. He went on to tell me the first pick up truck he ever sold also Ford was $2,700.

This adventure was two years ago. I have no idea what this new fancy F150 will cost. Even if the price has not changed, $74,000 will buy a lot of batteries. Especially if a person already has a late model vehicle with years of life left. Also one must consider the Expensive amount of fuel it would take to run electricity from a pick up truck to their home. Plus the wear and tear of engine wear.  This Ford might do in a pinch and I take it that is what you mean. These are just food for thought statements.
The point I was trying to make was really that technology is advancing fast here, and there are ways to take advantage of it to make ourselves more self-sufficient, not less, both as individuals and as a country. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2021, 02:48:06 pm »
Adding, if this new Ford is totally electric, then wouldn?t we sort of be like a dog chasing its tail? 😊😀
Not with solar, which is what we are considering. 

On the surface many things may sound good. A deep dig will often find questions. I have seen on YouTube in foreign Third World countries how to rebuild regular 12 V batteries, including brand new lead plates and brand new connection heads for almost nothing. Now consider the following.

I had a swarm call from a fellow who is a Ford dealership owner. The man was very nice and very kind.  He would not let me leave to go home unless I would go to lunch with him. He took me to a very fancy very nice Italian lunch spot in his hometown. He said Phillip do you know what this pick up truck retails for in which we are riding? I did not know. $74,000 he replied. He went on to tell me the first pick up truck he ever sold also Ford was $2,700.

This adventure was two years ago. I have no idea what this new fancy F150 will cost. Even if the price has not changed, $74,000 will buy a lot of batteries. Especially if a person already has a late model vehicle with years of life left. Also one must consider the Expensive amount of fuel it would take to run electricity from a pick up truck to their home. Plus the wear and tear of engine wear.  This Ford might do in a pinch and I take it that is what you mean. These are just food for thought statements.
The point I was trying to make was really that technology is advancing fast here, and there are ways to take advantage of it to make ourselves more self-sufficient, not less, both as individuals and as a country.

> Not with solar, which is what we are considering.

Actually considering the whole topic, I was considering wind and solar. Go back a few post and it will explain. The more sources of generating electricity of grid the better. Kind of like not putting all your eggs in one basket as the old saying, Which I always did, put them in the same basket when gathering eggs. Lucky I never tripped and fell, breaking them all lol  :grin: As I said before I did not think you meant depend on the truck only, a back up at most and I laid out things to consider. Food for thought if you will.


> The point I was trying to make was really that technology is advancing fast here, and there are ways to take advantage of it to make ourselves more self-sufficient, not less, both as individuals and as a country.

And very good points indeed! The point I was making was we are not quiet there yet, but close!  :happy:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2021, 02:54:51 pm »
Go even 2 days with no use of electricity for anything and then come back and tell me we don't need it.  Nothing works without it.
I didn't say electricity is not necessary.  What I said is that the grid is a convenience.  Filling in the gaps when self made power is not available.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2021, 02:58:16 pm »
The cost of storing electricity has always been the pitfall for off grid.  Todays technology is different.
We had a guy from a solar company come out for a consultation a week or two ago, and he was telling us about this new bidirectional-charging F-150 that Ford just announced.  The truck can be charged by your house electric like a normal electric car, but it can also function as a battery and charge your house in case of an outage.  This solar guy was really excited about this because with solar, instead of having a battery array, you could instead just purchase this truck, which would also benefit you in terms of transportation as opposed to batteries which just sit there, and so be far more cost effective.
Things like heat and air conditioning would suck it dry in an hour.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2021, 03:03:13 pm »
The point I was making was we are not quiet there yet, but close!  :happy:
Technology wise we are but we have to fight off the politicians that are in the oil companies pockets.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2021, 03:11:04 pm »
Off grid would be wonderful, I am with you all. I do not intend to discourage. We have a generator for emergencies. 5500-6500 watt, this will kick in alot of "juice" lol. But it does not run free. It still takes gas to run it and is ok for a few days in the winter when not nearly as much electricity is required. We have had to use it a time or two when snow and ice did the light line in.  :shocked:  Also on these snowy, cloudy days, it will not be much electricity generated with solar? What electricity that can or could be, can not as long as snow is covering the solar panels, blocking what light we do have? Do we put these on the roof? If so how long does it take for the 6 inches of snow to melt off when the sun doesn't shine? Do we climb up on the roof and try to clean them off. Wouldn't it be like placing yourself on a ski slope with a sudden drop off doing so? I do not know the answers to these questions of solar panels. I have not dug into this very deeply. Questions can not hurt. No offence intended to anyone. Together we learn, educate me! lol  :cheesy:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Cyber Ransom
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2021, 04:41:07 pm »
Adding, if this new Ford is totally electric, then wouldn?t we sort of be like a dog chasing its tail? 😊😀
Not with solar, which is what we are considering. 

On the surface many things may sound good. A deep dig will often find questions. I have seen on YouTube in foreign Third World countries how to rebuild regular 12 V batteries, including brand new lead plates and brand new connection heads for almost nothing. Now consider the following.

I had a swarm call from a fellow who is a Ford dealership owner. The man was very nice and very kind.  He would not let me leave to go home unless I would go to lunch with him. He took me to a very fancy very nice Italian lunch spot in his hometown. He said Phillip do you know what this pick up truck retails for in which we are riding? I did not know. $74,000 he replied. He went on to tell me the first pick up truck he ever sold also Ford was $2,700.

This adventure was two years ago. I have no idea what this new fancy F150 will cost. Even if the price has not changed, $74,000 will buy a lot of batteries. Especially if a person already has a late model vehicle with years of life left. Also one must consider the Expensive amount of fuel it would take to run electricity from a pick up truck to their home. Plus the wear and tear of engine wear.  This Ford might do in a pinch and I take it that is what you mean. These are just food for thought statements.
The point I was trying to make was really that technology is advancing fast here, and there are ways to take advantage of it to make ourselves more self-sufficient, not less, both as individuals and as a country.

> Not with solar, which is what we are considering.

Actually considering the whole topic, I was considering wind and solar. Go back a few post and it will explain. The more sources of generating electricity of grid the better. Kind of like not putting all your eggs in one basket as the old saying, Which I always did, put them in the same basket when gathering eggs. Lucky I never tripped and fell, breaking them all lol  :grin: As I said before I did not think you meant depend on the truck only, a back up at most and I laid out things to consider. Food for thought if you will.


> The point I was trying to make was really that technology is advancing fast here, and there are ways to take advantage of it to make ourselves more self-sufficient, not less, both as individuals and as a country.

And very good points indeed! The point I was making was we are not quiet there yet, but close!  :happy:

Oh sure, we're not very far along planning this solar yet, but like Ace said, batteries are the expensive part, and we've been thinking about getting a pickup truck anyway for the homestead, so this seem like a great opportunity.  This truck starts at $40k I think.  And my sister one time literally put all the eggs in one basket and then decided it would be fun to spin the basket around in the circle.  That didn't end well.  :embarassed:   

Things like heat and air conditioning would suck it dry in an hour.
A/C is actually no where near the power expense of heat.  We heat our house predominantly with wood.  Ford claims that the truck when fully charged could power an average house for several days. 

Off grid would be wonderful, I am with you all. I do not intend to discourage. We have a generator for emergencies. 5500-6500 watt, this will kick in alot of "juice" lol. But it does not run free. It still takes gas to run it and is ok for a few days in the winter when not nearly as much electricity is required. We have had to use it a time or two when snow and ice did the light line in.  :shocked:  Also on these snowy, cloudy days, it will not be much electricity generated with solar? What electricity that can or could be, can not as long as snow is covering the solar panels, blocking what light we do have? Do we put these on the roof? If so how long does it take for the 6 inches of snow to melt off when the sun doesn't shine? Do we climb up on the roof and try to clean them off. Wouldn't it be like placing yourself on a ski slope with a sudden drop off doing so? I do not know the answers to these questions of solar panels. I have not dug into this very deeply. Questions can not hurt. No offence intended to anyone. Together we learn, educate me! lol  :cheesy:
I'd imagine in a situation like this you'd have to find some way to get the snow off the panels.  This is another challenge with solar of course, but that's why you have batteries, to get you through times when there is not enough sun.     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.