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Author Topic: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation  (Read 1595 times)

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2021, 11:20:38 am »
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My point is conservatives will beat down socialistic programs and then RIGHTFULY take advantage of them.  What I don't get is continually beating down socialism after you have taken advantage of it.  Why is it not needed for others in that situation? 

We should not confuse terms.  There are many countries that have robust social welfare programs, but they are not socialist countries.  Their social welfare programs are supported by a capitalist economic system.  We have already gone through examples of how promising a lot can lead to socialism.  We don't need to do that again. 
What many of these people in and out of government are talking about now is Marxism.  They are no longer happy with social welfare programs.  They want the whole thing.

I do not have a problem with short term help for people who have SH events.  Programs should be targeted and limited.  At this point, they are not.  More and more is being promised and more people seem willing to take it without question.  When I was a kid there was some shame involved in taking welfare of any kind.  That's not a bad thing.  People should understand that they are using other peoples earned money and that it's not an OK thing to keep doing that. 

That's why I think charities and families should be the first stop for people who get into a jam.  When you have to look someone in the eye as you ask to take their money it is much harder to keep taking their money.  When money comes from the government it's easy to picture the magic money tree and feel no guilt.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2021, 06:14:15 pm »
When money comes from the government it's easy to picture the magic money tree and feel no guilt.
If you grew up in a family that didn't teach self worth I agree.  If you grew up in a family that taught you to pull your own weight it doesn't matter where the help comes from.  I think help should come in the form of a loan not a give away.  In no way do I think student loans should be forgiven.  No one forced them to take the loan.  Kids need to learn finance starting at the age of 5.  I am totally against an allowance.  You want money you work for it and I could care less what your friends get or have.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2021, 09:11:29 pm »
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If you grew up in a family that didn't teach self worth I agree.  If you grew up in a family that taught you to pull your own weight it doesn't matter where the help comes from.  I think help should come in the form of a loan not a give away.  In no way do I think student loans should be forgiven.  No one forced them to take the loan.  Kids need to learn finance starting at the age of 5.  I am totally against an allowance.  You want money you work for it and I could care less what your friends get or have.

Maybe we have a self-worth deficit in this country?   :grin:  Honestly, I don't think most people understand the connection between income, taxes, and welfare or government spending.

Had a conversation once with a woman who was supporting more money for teachers who had gone on strike.  I explained to her that public-sector unions are not the same as unions in private business because a public union is bargaining against the taxpayer for more money and sees no bottom line.  A union in a private industry knows that there is a bottom line and how much they can ask.  She said, "What do you mean the bargain against the taxpayer?".
It had never occurred to her that a government worker is taking money from the taxpayer and not from the school, state, or whatever other government agency they work for. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2021, 08:37:07 am »
I believe unions should be banned from government workers, teachers, police, fireman, most definitely the DMV,DPW, USPO and all government entities.  Fairness should be controlled by their own government rules.  Incomes should be the prevailing wages in the public sector and that goes with benefits.  Refusing to work should be a fire able offence.  Striking against the taxpayer is nuts.
As you can tell I am not in favor of unions in general but unions in government are not balancing greed like they tend to do in the private sector.
Unions by far are the route cause of not being able to route out police misconduct.  Or misconduct in the private sector for that matter.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2021, 08:40:34 am »
A union in a private industry knows that there is a bottom line and how much they can ask.
They really don't.  Many self destruct driving industry off shore.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2021, 01:16:12 pm »
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They really don't.  Many self destruct driving industry off shore.

That's true and it is a consequence.  There is no consequence for public sector unions. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2021, 10:58:13 pm »
Yes, I feel like I woke up in a Communist country.  Deprogramming?  Reeducation?   And proposing laws that have many states and counties passing ?constitutional sanctuary? laws. If some of this passes and the sanctuary laws are not respected it looks like Texas will secede from the union. I?m sure glad the democrats want to unify the country...
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Online gww

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2021, 12:14:54 am »
Texas has talked about succeeding from the union every election.  This won't be the first time.  They have been scared forever it seems like but I still deer hunt every year.  Same subject on a solar web site over ten years ago.  Guess instead of talking softly while carrying a big stick, they go for lotta bark but no bite.
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gww

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2021, 04:07:50 pm »
>Texas has talked about succeeding from the union every election.

Yes, but they don't propose legislation to put it to a vote every election.  Western Nebraska has been threatening to secede from Eastern Nebraska for as long as I can remember.  But it's not like they aren't serious.  They are serious.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2021, 08:19:20 pm »
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But it's not like they aren't serious.  They are serious.

Apparently, there is a county in CO that wants to leave and join Wyoming.  I was up in Ft Collins some years ago and it is more like WY than it is like CO in attitude and political ideology.  Legal opinions are split on whether or not a state can keep a county from joining another state.  If there is followthrough, this will be interesting.  If they succeed, splits of counties from states will be more likely than entier states leaving the union.


There are parts of CA that would happily join NV and parts of OR and WA that would happily join ID. 

Unfortunately for TX they are being inundated by escapees from the west coast, and a lot of those folks won't make the connection between leftist politics and what they are fleeing.  They will take their leftist ideas with them and destroy TX.  A lot of people in TX know this and are not happy.  They watched OR and WA destroyed by the exodus from CA in the 80s and 90s. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2021, 03:07:55 pm »
Yes, I am afraid for Texas.  The term "Californication" came from that exodus back in the 70's from California to Oregon and Washington...  It's already happened to Denver...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2021, 04:07:43 pm »
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It's already happened to Denver...

and Boise.

These leftists escape the mess they have made and remake it elsewhere.  Unfortunately, they clump up in population centers like Portland and Seattle and ruin the entire state for everyone. 

Abbott has this delusion that he can invite tech companies, etc. into the state and not invite the leftist ideology. 

Unfortunately, if we do not clean up our election system, there is no hope.  There is no way in hades Orange County CA, as an example, all of a sudden became a bastion of leftist ideology.   

There is a way to evaluate what happened in this last election without going into the weeds.  Take a state like mine (OR).  We have all vote by mail and to this point have done a good job of keeping it honest.  In this election, conservative places stayed conservative and leftist places stayed leftist.  Trump got 39.09% of the Oregon vote in 2016 and 40.37% in 2020.  Not a big difference, but a trend upward in a state that is pretty much all D all the time.

That should have translated across the country if elections had been secure.  As an average, there should not have been a lot of red places that all of a sudden went blue.  In those places where this happened, there were either questions about the process, the changes in voting requirements, or questions about the counting.  The majority of those places were run by dems. 

Additionally, Trumps % of both black and Hispanic votes went up.  Hispanic votes especially went up in border counties and black votes were up among black men. 

I will tell you that this might be the last election that can be trusted in Oregon.  Our Gov wishes to do away with the safeguards that have allowed us to trust the elections even though conservatives rarely win more than a few counties.  She wants to do away with ID requirements, that we are registered 3 weeks before the election, and have valid signature cards on file.  We now have motor voter, she'd like to add ballot harvesting, and she wishes to do away with the requirement that ballots be in by election day. 

For some reason, the left likes to make fraud easier. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2021, 07:32:48 pm »
>For some reason, the left likes to make fraud easier. 

Yes.  Every change they propose makes it easier to cheat.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2021, 10:53:26 am »
For some reason, the left likes to make fraud easier.
Well let me see here, I have seen you write that we have laws against shooting people so there is no need to restrict guns.  We also have laws against casting a fraudulent ballot so we should not restrict voting.  But I know you believe in a double standard.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2021, 12:39:22 pm »
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Well let me see here, I have seen you write that we have laws against shooting people so there is no need to restrict guns.  We also have laws against casting a fraudulent ballot so we should not restrict voting.  But I know you believe in a double standard.

I always make sure to put my coffee down before I read your posts!   :cheesy:

No one wants to restrict the voting of those who are legally eligible to vote.  We want to make sure that the people who vote are legally eligible to vote. 
We also enforce the laws against shooting people.  When's the last time someone went to jail for fraudulently voting? 

The left seems to think that things like voter ID, getting a ballot in on time, and putting a stamp on an envelope are things that people who are other than white can't do.  We call that soft bigotry, and it is yet another example of the lefts elitist thinking. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online gww

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2021, 07:36:26 pm »
It is probably more nefarious than just trying for a honest vote.  Some are restricting mail voting while at the same time making it illegal to give somebody in a voting line a drink of water.  I mean really, come on.  Any body can see though that crap.
Cheers
gww

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2021, 08:09:55 pm »
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It is probably more nefarious than just trying for a honest vote.  Some are restricting mail voting while at the same time making it illegal to give somebody in a voting line a drink of water.  I mean really, come on.  Any body can see though that crap.

Vote by mail should be restricted unless states put some very rigid controls in place.  Most have not.  It has long been known to be the least secure way of voting.  European countries have very restrictive vote by mail rules and they were put in place because of fraud. 
We don't know how much fraud we have here because there has never been a concerted effort to find out.  When outlets like the LA Times do look into it, they find it.
How much fraud is OK?  Maybe we should find out how much there is before we decide how much is OK?

Do you have a link to info on the water thing?   :grin:  That seems a bit odd unless they were afraid someone would get poisoned OR it was done by a political party operative.

Elections should be trustworthy.  People are not too stupid that they can't provide ID, proof of address and citizenship, and get a ballot in on time or go vote.  The fact that the left thinks it disenfranchises minorities says more about the left's attitude toward minorities than about our voting system.

Paper ballots.  One day to vote or get your ballot in.  Purged voter rolls.  ID and address. Verification of citizenship.  Signature verification if voting by mail.  No ballot harvesting.  It ain't rocket science.  We managed to do it for a couple of hundred years.  No reason to encourage fraud now. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online gww

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2021, 12:25:49 am »
Kathy
Here is one.
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/politics/elections/georgia-elections-officials-line-warming-crackdown/85-afb28fc8-f0aa-4cab-800d-443bc58ddca8
I watched some of those lines.  People were standing in line for 6/8 hours in some precincts.
Cheers
gww

Offline iddee

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2021, 07:33:16 am »
gww, First, it was only talked about, not acted upon. Second, it is being questioned as to the legality of it by the gov. himself. Don't quote as fact when it's only a passing question.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Deprograming, de-platforming, and reeducation
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2021, 09:23:44 am »
No one wants to restrict the voting of those who are legally eligible to vote.
I put that in a category of, "I don't know anyone that thinks covid is a hoax".
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