Getting food to a cluster that won?t move.

[Aroc]

May have a couple hives that have the cluster down low and I?m guessing due to brood they aren?t moving up. It?s just now reaching 40 deg f.  We won?t see 50?s for at least a couple of weeks.

Is there a way to get food to these bees without tearing everything apart?  I usually just use sugar bricks but if there is something else I can do until it warms up....?

[BeeMaster2]

Sugar bricks are your best bet in cold weather.
Jim Altmiller

[Aroc]

Sugar bricks are your best bet in cold weather.
Jim Altmiller

I guess my concern is I hear folks talk about dead outs with plenty of food right above the cluster.  If they are covering brood they won?t move up.

[BeeMaster2]

There is not much you can do during cold weather. You will probably do more harm than good if you do anything more than left the top.
Jim

[MikeyN.C.]

Aroc, you asked a very good question in my opinion.  I believe that it has to do with each beekeepers climate.  Here in N.C. I've read lots about this. I run 10 on 10 brood chambers,  our winters are not harsh. Some hives (colony's)  will move up to 2nd 10, some will stay down in bottom 10. Why i can't figure out.  Not sure if it's genetics. But i beginning to thank that's the reason alot of beeks, use the 5 on 5 nucs. and 10 or 8 frame boxes with divider boards , don't know.  I've not figured it out yet but will.

[BeeMaster2]

Mickey,
My answer was based on his location which is Montana. He can kill a lot of bees adding syrup to his hives or by inspecting or rearranging the frames.
Jim

[MikeyN.C.]

Jim, understand.  My reply was i don't understand why some bees move up or stay down .

[MikeyN.C.]

My reply was i don't understand why some bees move up or stay down .

We talked to Michael Bush about this at BeeFest this weekend. A lot of it has to do with how much brood they have or do not have. This happens when you have a warm spell and then it goes back to being cold. They do not want to move off of brood. If it is cold enough they tighten up the cluster on the brood and if the cluster is smaller than the brood area, they run out of food.
Jim

[BeeMaster2]

Sorry, the server messed up. I posted the previous thread as an answer to Mickey.
Jim

[Acebird]

Is there a way to get food to these bees without tearing everything apart?

No, and it probably won't make any difference.
If the hive was organized correctly there would be enough food stored for them in the fall to make it through winter.  The organization tends to work if the bees are allowed to do it rather then the beekeeper.  There are cases where the bees tunnel up through their stores and leave a lot behind.  This results in them being in the top box with nothing above them.  The sugar bricks/ mountain camp method can save them in this case.  I think, so would a reversal.
I can't picture a scenario where the bees would consume the honey above and raise brood below if it were not the beekeeper's fault.  If they did that on their own I would think there is a genetic problem and it might be better to let them die.

[Aroc]

 Ace

I see what you are saying.  Haven?t had a problem until this year.  We still have 8 inches or more of snow on the ground.  Last couple of years we have green grass by now.  Just a little concerned with a couple of hives not moving up even to access their own stores.

[Acebird]

Forgive me, how do you know there is a gap between them and the stores if you haven't taken the hive apart?  Bees are not going to move up if what is above them is solid honey.

[Aroc]

Forgive me, how do you know there is a gap between them and the stores if you haven't taken the hive apart?  Bees are not going to move up if what is above them is solid honey.

I don?t.  Just a bit nervous this year do to the extended winter.  We reached 40+ deg the other day and took the opportunity to pop the tops and check food etc.  Most were up and visible.  We have about three hives that you could tell were low...couldn?t see them but you could hear them. 

[Acebird]

All bees do not do everything the same.  The ones you can't see might be your best hives and they might be your worst hives.  If your weather is not warm enough for your spring assessment then leave them alone.  Wait until it is.  Worry about the hives that have the bees on the top and the honey underneath.  Don't worry about the ones you know are there but you can't see them.

[MikeyN.C.]

Jim,
Thanks for reply #8, makes sense.  Queen can move up during warm snap and lay, then if we get a cold snap . there might not bee enough bee's to cover capped brood?

[MikeyN.C.]

And do nurse bee's follow Q ?  So that some capped brood is left vulnerable?

[BeeMaster2]

And do nurse bee's follow Q ?  So that some capped brood is left vulnerable?

The queen tries to stay in the middle of the cluster. If you leave the queen excluder on, she will bee left below it when they move up.
Jim

[Ben Framed]

May have a couple hives that have the cluster down low and I?m guessing due to brood they aren?t moving up. It?s just now reaching 40 deg f.  We won?t see 50?s for at least a couple of weeks.

Is there a way to get food to these bees without tearing everything apart?  I usually just use sugar bricks but if there is something else I can do until it warms up....?

Try this, I am much further south than you, worked for me, however I didn't add the vinegar. Woolie added the feed mixture ratio in the comment section under my name. Good luck. Phillip Hall
https://youtu.be/xYWLLsnU-y8