Heat Relief: Screen under your hive tops?

[Ben Framed]

For those of you who shim your tops for the purpose of added ventilation for your hives in hot weather, (add a shim in between the top and top super), do you add a screen on top of your top super to help prevent SHB from entering the open space now made available by this method of ventilation of heat relief?

[tycrnp]

We have an inner cover that has a center hole that we have covered with hardware cloth. We open just the back of the outer cover for ventilation. We see SHBs, but they don't seem to be any worse since we started doing that last year.

[.30WCF]

Not the answer to the question you asked, but sometimes I put 1-1/2? thick foam with the foil side up on top of the telescoping cover to reflect the heat. It?s cut a little oversized to provide a little shade too.

[TheHoneyPump]

If I recall; it has been posted that the best method for heat is not more ventilation, but instead to insulate.  Insulation protects from heat just as well as it protects from cold.

[Ben Framed]

If I recall; it has been posted that the best method for heat is not more ventilation, but instead to insulate.  Insulation protects from heat just as well as it protects from cold.

True, insulation tops have been discussed here before. I have also used these as well (2 inch insulation to be precise). I have discussed that very thing here with my results as well, and recently. I had a drawback. Perhaps not enough to be concerned with but I thought I might try something a lifetime beekeeper from my area has recommended. I did not know if others here might have attempted the vented top as well, so I decided to start this topic.

As a (newer) beekeeper, fourth summer,  I like to experiment with different ideas and suggestions which seem reasonable and then weigh the results, then deciding which works best for me in my area. Vented tops have been recommended to me as a valid avenue for releasing heat in a over-bearded overheated hive here in the South. Not being one to be stuck in one mode but attempting to be open minded when reasonable, I thought I would try the vented option as described this season. I recently did so. I am happy to report it has proven to work "very well" in my location.

Always a threat in summer, Small Hive Beetles in my location are not to be taken lightly as noted. That is why I ask the question; Should screen tops be added when wedging, (venting), the hive top. Should the two be used together, is why I started this topic. Your input is very valued Mr Honeypump. Vented tops in my area work. Do these have to be screened because of SHB is the question. Hopefully I will find more answers concerning the two. I can always go back to insulated if I find insulated works best for me. I bet  you are thankful that you do not have to deal with these awful pest; SHB ...  Rough customers at times.

[TheHoneyPump]

It is a great question on the screens for stopping SHB.
For sure am thankful to not have SHB threat here. Nor the heat temperatures.  My -normal- sunny day is 75F.  Though we have a heat wave on the way for this weekend, 95F .  ( I will be in the cool basement watching movies ). 

[.30WCF]

I can?t verify anything about the screens for the top, but is seem like it?s worth a shot. I don?t see what it would hurt. Even, if not for the beetles, the hornets and wasps.  I?ve noticed moths like to hang out under the shaded lip of the telescoping covers.

It may not be the hiccup you had, but I recall reading about someone?s bees chewing through the insulated tops. I place my foam over the telescoping cover. Is it tacky looking? Depends on how picky one is. If one likes the results, they may not care so much about the appearance. From 40? away does it look that much different than a white cover with aluminum flashing on top?

But don?t change what isn?t broke. If the vented covers are working, I don?t see a downside to the screens being added.

[Ben Framed]

I can?t verify anything about the screens for the top, but is seem like it?s worth a shot. I don?t see what it would hurt. Even, if not for the beetles, the hornets and wasps.  I?ve noticed moths like to hang out under the shaded lip of the telescoping covers.

It may not be the hiccup you had, but I recall reading about someone?s bees chewing through the insulated tops. I place my foam over the telescoping cover. Is it tacky looking? Depends on how picky one is. If one likes the results, they may not care so much about the appearance. From 40? away does it look that much different than a white cover with aluminum flashing on top?

But don?t change what isn?t broke. If the vented covers are working, I don?t see a downside to the screens being added.

I am not disputing that insulation board helps, I have used them.  This season, I have moved on to a wedge ventilation on top and am asking about the possibility of needing screen for reasons explained to HoneyPump earlier in my detailed reply number 4. As I told Mr HoneyPump, If I find I am not happy with this experiment, I may very well go back to insulation board. I am not attempting to convince others to try something I am in the middle of learning myself. lol

Can it hurt a hive with this small amount of added ventilation allowed throughout the hive here in the hot South if done properly? This type Ventilation vs bees steady working hard to achieve ventilation in an enclosed hive where no air can move except by hard work of the bees fanning to stir the air? Is there a downside?

The downside of screens (if needed) is the time involved to produce them. Scrap board ends to produce frames for these screen tops are free from construction sites. A roll of screen is not very expensive if broken down (per-hive).

[Ben Framed]

30 another upside of screens added are the Critters you mentioned can not come in through the top, but they can enter the bottom opening as always. So the same question, are screens needed at the top wedges? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[cao]

I have inner covers with hole cut out for jar feeder with screen across it.  They all get propolised shut by the end of the season.  If the bees can't get through they will eventually close it off.  I have a few boxes on a couple hives that don't fit very well.  Instead of closing the gap, they chewed it until it got big enough for them to get through.  Now they have a second opening  which they tend to use more often. 

With that being said, back to you original question.  I don't think that a screen would make any difference.  I also don't think that bearding is a bad thing.  It just means that it is warm enough inside that they don't need the extra heat from all those bees.  As long as your comb is not falling apart from the heat your bees should be fine.

[Ben Framed]

I have inner covers with hole cut out for jar feeder with screen across it.  They all get propolised shut by the end of the season.  If the bees can't get through they will eventually close it off.  I have a few boxes on a couple hives that don't fit very well.  Instead of closing the gap, they chewed it until it got big enough for them to get through.  Now they have a second opening  which they tend to use more often. 

With that being said, back to you original question.  I don't think that a screen would make any difference.  I also don't think that bearding is a bad thing.  It just means that it is warm enough inside that they don't need the extra heat from all those bees.  As long as your comb is not falling apart from the heat your bees should be fine.

Thanks Cao...  I am not going to give the screens much more thought. I will keep a
close eye on things.

[rast]

 In my beekeeping youth, I tried all the anti-bearding tricks and all either created a problem or extra work for me and or the bees or didn't show enough of an improvement to warrant the extra expense, think slat racks. Imrie shim just used more guard bees and no additional honey. Screen bottom boards let the powdered sugar fall through all right, but didn't take enough mites with it and hives still died. They also let ants and other critters up into the hive. Wax frass still built up on the edges so moths laid in it. Just like cao, they prop it up or open it up and just usually guard it if opened. My hives are like that hollow tree today and yes they beard.   

[Michael Bush]

Once the ambient temperature is above 93F even if they are in the shade, and if it is close to that and they are in the sun, the bees are no longer ventilating, they are cooling.  They haul more water and evaporate more water.  Opening things up more is like leaving the door open with the air conditioner running...

[Ben Framed]

Once the ambient temperature is above 93F even if they are in the shade, and if it is close to that and they are in the sun, the bees are no longer ventilating, they are cooling.  They haul more water and evaporate more water.  Opening things up more is like leaving the door open with the air conditioner running...

That makes sense... great answer, Thanks Mr Bush..

[The15thMember]

You seem off of the screens, Phillip, but for anyone who is curious, #8 screen doesn't stop SHB, although it does slow them down.  I saw one squeeze through a screened inner cover today.  It was tight, but the little bugger made it through before I could smash him.    I did get his friend though. 

[Oldbeavo]

I have just read a research project on hive temperature and what effects the bees.
I will try and find it and post it if i can.
The guts of it was that insulation is the most important, ventilating the top of the hive upsets the bee cooling system, creates air flow that interferes with their air movement for cooling. Even lid vents, 2 x 3/4 inch holes each end in the lid are only effective when transporting hives.
We have about 30 hives that have wooden insulated lids with no vents and they perform well. I will now take more notice whether they are performing better but they are spread around a few loads.
The polystyrene hives are the most effective for bees to survive extremes of temperature, the Paradise hives we use have no lid ventilation and have done well in 100F full sun. (Not done on purpose, got my compass directions messed up and unloaded before sun got up, the shade missed the hives)
The ventilation is again human logic not matching up with bee logic.

[Ben Framed]

I will try and find it and post it if i can.
The guts of it was that insulation is the most important, ventilating the top of the hive upsets the bee cooling system, creates air flow that interferes with their air movement for cooling.

Oldbeavo,
In that case I am glad I kept my insulated hive tops! Back to them I go without hesitation.. I am glad I ask and I appreciate all responses!

[.30WCF]

30 another upside of screens added are the Critters you mentioned can not come in through the top, but they can enter the bottom opening as always. So the same question, are screens needed at the top wedges? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Is that kind of like saying that I could get a 50% reduction in my light bill by turning off the lights when I?m not using them. But, I do use my lights sometimes, so why not leave them all on all the time.

[Ben Framed]

30 another upside of screens added are the Critters you mentioned can not come in through the top, but they can enter the bottom opening as always. So the same question, are screens needed at the top wedges? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Is that kind of like saying that I could get a 50% reduction in my light bill by turning off the lights when I?m not using them. But, I do use my lights sometimes, so why not leave them all on all the time.

The main reason I was interested in these top screens was to help keep SHB from the luxury of entering at both ends.  I suppose these screens might have been an aid for the added pest you mentioned, if so, so much the better.

As mentioned in my last post I have decided to go back to my insulate tops. The supporting testimony?s of several of you here including Mr Bush and the clincher, the evidence of OldBeavo made perfect sense. Thanks again for each of your comments.

[yes2matt]

Every time I've put any kind of screened ventilation cover, the bees have covered it entirely with propolis. I finally got the message.

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