Rank smell in hive

[somethingrandom]

Hi,

I've got a bit of a small hive beetle problem in my hive which has been ongoing for a long time. I've installed oil and DE traps. Used nematodes. Finally installed Apithor poison traps on the baseboard, i don't see many beetles in the hive now, but they are still there. For the last few months though I have noticed bee numbers falling and the hive has a smell which I can't really describe with words. Upon inspection of comb it does not appear to have been "slimed out" by shb larve. Ive poped open a few sealed brood cells and larve inside appear normal so I dont think it's AFB. I'm located in Brisbane Australia, and new to beekeeping. Not sure if I should just leave them in this state over winter (the queen is still laying) and hope that they will pick up again in the spring or take action now.

If I were to take action now, what action should I take?

The troubled hive is a top bar hive. I also have a healthy 5 frame NUC hive and an 8 frame empty bee box with undrawn foundation.

I am leaning towards the smell in the hive being caused by yeasts introduced by the SHB. If so, is it too late and has the damage already been done? Or, can I spray the comb down with water to clean off the yeasts and reverse the damage. When I first noticed the smell I also noticed that the bees stopped drawing comb at the same time, and a small piece of comb was being left unguarded so I removed it from the hive and kept it inside. This piece smelled bad for a few weeks but now the smell has gone away entirely.

ShouId I instead try and install the remaining bees into the empty 8 frame box and borrow some resources from the NUC hive? If I gave them no resources but a diet of sugar water and pollen patties would they draw comb over winter?

All suggestions and advice appreciated.

- Beewildered
 

[Bee North]

Gday mate.
I'm North of you up near Cairns.... In the tropics we get a lot of SHB.
It sounds like your baiting and trapping well enough however I have found bee numbers are the answer. Get rid of excess space and the bees manage the SHB. Traps/baits assist the bees to keep the SBH under control.
Brisbane weather is getting a little cooler now and you will notice SHB numbers dropping with temps.
I'm concerned about the "smell". If your hive hasnt been slimed out and there are beetles only, perhaps there is something else going on.
Have you checked for AFB? If not do a google search for AFB as it has a rank smell.
There are a lot more experienced beeks here, I'm only 4 years in the game.
I'm sure you will get more advice. But beatles alone dont really smell in my experience.

[Bee North]

Hi again something random...sorry I missed the fact you checked for AFB already.

I shouldnt post while watching the news!!!

Hopefully someone else offers you some advice regarding the smell.

It's a good idea to post a photo of the brood..
.someone may pick up something you may have missed.

[somethingrandom]

Thanks mate, i'll upload some photos over the weekend. I have seen and killed a few SHB larve in the hive over the last few months but they are rare to see.

[somethingrandom]

Went through the hive and snapped a bunch of pics. Saw no beetles at all which is a first. Smell was if anything worse than usual. I removed a couple of unguarded combs and my wife says they smelled like dirty socks... Randomly poped caps on a few sealed brood, again found nothing unexpected within. Here are some photos.

[somethingrandom]

Here are a few more.

[TheHoneyPump]

From the pictures.  That brood is fine.  Larvae fine.
I will suggest, rather strongly (pun), the smell is coming from whatever floral source the bees are collecting from at the moment. Go for a walk around and see what is blooming in abundance around there.  Then try to identify which one(s) are known for less pleasant flower smells.  Not all flowers are heavenly sweet. 
As example, here when the bees get heavy into the spring dandelions the whole beeyard smells terribly pungent.  I love dandelion for growing bees.  I hate the smell.  Makes the hives stink aweful. if one was not aware of what they were bringing in it could send us down a path of worry and blank lab analysis results.  A close relative of the dandelion is the marigold.  Imagine stuffing you nose deep in marigolds. I do not know what flora you have where you are, but surely there are some similar that give off less than pleasant aromas.
I realize you are on the other side of the globe from me.  Going into winter there as spring is just beginning here.  The bee population will naturally dwindle in fall and winter.  Thus there may be no pests or disease affecting your hive.  So look for what they have been collecting as the most likely cause of the smell. 

Hope that helps!

[van from Arkansas]

Random, I see pearl white, healthy larva.  As HP suggest the flora source may be the culprit.  On the other side of the planet, I have no idea about your Fall foliage.  Our Fall produces golden rod that is somewhat unpleasant smell to me.

Some known:
Bacteria have a putrid smell, very offensive, nauseous. the smell is Putridizen[sp] very poisonous.
Yeast have bitter smell offensive, unpleasant but not nauseous to most.

Regarding the beetles add to your arsenal, freeze spray, nontoxic, nonflammable used to freeze skin aberrations by MD and also by chip mfg to blow off dust.  The spray is minus 62F at the tip so be careful not to freeze your skin.  Available at office supply or amazon.

Cheers

[FloridaGardener]

Paper Shop/Kitchen towels such as "Dixie H700" or "Brawny Dine-A-Max" are a great SHB trap.  I find it way better than the in-hive oil traps that warp/spill/dry out.  A friend uses unscented "Swiffer" sheets, I haven't tried those but the bees will rough those up too, and trap the SHB.

The cloth works fine on the floor of a top bar hive, back near the follower board. The bees will herd the SHB away from the brood and the SHB will get stuck in it.

[somethingrandom]

Thanks HP, I hadn't considered that. I'm in suburbia so I imagine there is a lot of variety to chose from. My other hive has a normal "healthy" odor. Is this still a likely scenario? I'm sure it's accurate to say that individual hive populations vary from season to season, my observation is a steady decline of bee numbers from the smelly hive, i'd say the population has almost halved in a period of about 2-3 months. It didn't happen all of a sudden ie, the low numbers aren't the result of a swarm. My other hive on the other hand, seems if anything to have increased in numbers. I'd really love for the smell to be related to the pollen they are bringing in and will research local flora.

Cheers

[Ben Framed]

Nice to know that your hive is healthy as that is the main thing. Both Mr Van and HoneyPump may have nailed it. Here in the Fall in my area, is a thriving plant called Goldenrod. It has a very different smell, a smell that you can easily detect several feet away from a hive.

[Seeb]

Paper Shop/Kitchen towels such as "Dixie H700" or "Brawny Dine-A-Max" are a great SHB trap.  I find it way better than the in-hive oil traps that warp/spill/dry out.  A friend uses unscented "Swiffer" sheets, I haven't tried those but the bees will rough those up too, and trap the SHB.

wait, what, I've not heard of this, would you mind explaining how to use in a langstroth type hive

[The15thMember]

Paper Shop/Kitchen towels such as "Dixie H700" or "Brawny Dine-A-Max" are a great SHB trap.  I find it way better than the in-hive oil traps that warp/spill/dry out.  A friend uses unscented "Swiffer" sheets, I haven't tried those but the bees will rough those up too, and trap the SHB.

wait, what, I've not heard of this, would you mind explaining how to use in a langstroth type hive

I use Swiffers for beetles.  I buy generic dry Swiffer pads, cut them in quarters, and put a square or two between the boxes.  I put them in the corners so the Swiffer is pinched in the edge of the boxes and then the bees can't remove it.  They'll try to though and rough up the Swiffer and make it all frizzy, and then the beetles' feet will get caught in the Swiffer.  The downside is some bees will get caught in the Swiffer too, but I feel that if I'm catching significantly more beetles than bees, it's an acceptable price to pay.       

[Seeb]

Thanks for the heads up - on this