ALMOST BEEKEEPING - RELATED TOPICS > FARMING & COUNTRY LIFE
Branded Double Horseshoe
Ben Framed:
I know you already know this Jim, stay on your toes, she will be more prone to further offensive behavior toward you since this incident. She will have more confidence in the dominance she 'thinks' she has built, so be careful when first beginning your ground work..
Though many colts do not go all out, I have ran across a couple colts that in fact, went 'all out' when "thinking" they were going to be the boss of the outfit lol. It is my experience these horses, after graduating from 'horse school', found a mutual understanding and respect between themselves and rider (handler); Such horses many times, make 'excellent' partners in cow work for example, as well as other horses related activities.
Phillip
Kathyp:
Ground work is everything. Even so, a horse that is willing to kick like that might not be worth keeping. I'd keep a nice buggy whip or something like that handy because you have to establish yourself as top of the herd with her. People fuss about going after a horse with bad manners like that, but you can't begin to do to them what they do to each other to establish dominance. 1500 lbs or so of not Black Beauty :grin:
Glad you were not hurt worse. Had a friend get kicked like that and had broken ribs and a punctured lung. We aren't getting any younger!!
Ben Framed:
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Ben Framed
Feeding time and place, is where the 'pecking order' is mainly established between each individual horse as well as the people handling them. Handlers are not excluded by some horses when establishing, who is the boss, and pecking order. You assumed you were the top of the ladder in authority. Cherokee, though seeming to accept this at first, decided to challenge your dominance as the heard leader after a couple of times of being ran back, or 'shooed' back. The is "Natures way" in horse language.
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--- Quote ---Kathyp
I'd keep a nice buggy whip or something like that handy because you have to establish yourself as top of the herd with her.
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Horses can be what we humans consider very cruel to one another. Usually at feeding time is where this behavior is shown or brought out, and where the order of dominance is realized by the whole heard from one horse to the next, be it two horses or fifty, there WILL be a pecking order. kicking, biting, and pawing are good examples of this offensive behavior. The handler needs some sort of equalizing tool for an advantage for self defense 'always' when mingling with the heard at feeding time in my opinion. This is the 'first place' in my opinion where actual ground work begins 'at feeding time'. This simple tool will allow you a 'way' to keep a 'safe space' between yourself and 'all' the horses, while establishing you are the 'boss horse' so to speak and this tool is rarely needed to be 'used' more than the vision of it in hand or a simple wave of it once they see you are willing to defend yourself with it.
Don't worry, they will still be your friend. They will learn what your rules are about distance and will not view you as being mean or cruel but will simply offer respect to you as one horse to another lol.
Once again, remember what they can and will do to each other to establish 'their' order which you as a handler are a part of. Once pecking order is established with a heard, and they realize you 'will' defend your self, 'your space', and accept you as the undisputed leader of the heard, usually a simple wave of the tool is all that is needed for a reminder if a horse gets too close. Just as the boss horse will back its ears and reach out with a warning as to bite another lower ranking horse at the feed trough as a reminder to the other, "hey you are getting to close, this is my space and my food, get back". Meaning in horse language, "get back Jack" this is my turf lol. If the lower ranking horse forgets the warning, or feels the need of to push the issue further by challenging the dominate horses space, the dominate horse 'will not usually' warn the second time, but lay in with a aggressive 'mean bite' in close proximity at the feeding trough which a bite is bad enough for a horse but can be devastating to a human! If a bite is not good enough and more is needed to keep that space at the feeding trough then more action 'will' be taken by the upper level horse.
This is where you might have made a mistake without knowing Jim. When you shooed the horse back the first time she heeded. But the second time she might have thought "hum, no action just another warning". I think I will simply see if I can take over this operation" thus a full out challenge, challenging you by coming at you with both back feet flying. This was not her first rodeo in establishing herself in a horse pecking order.
A handler must be prepared to do the same 'if necessary' when space is 'ask for' by that handler when negative non-respect is shown by the horse.. Please remember when establishing pecking order, you are considered no more than another member of the heard during the transition time of establishing the order. As Kathy well pointed out we are no match for a horse pound for pound. We have to have a way to protect and handle the heard safely especially at feeding time.
A bit more: When the lead horse decides to feed somewhere else at the feeding trough, he or she can proceed anywhere he pleases with out physical rebuttal. The other horses will clear the way it has chosen. This respect of the heard must be established by the handler as well. The herdsmen should be able to walk anywhere in the heard of horses, with a full feed bucket, he chooses to go without any horse invading his space. Remember they are ALL watching. If one of the upper ranking horses happens to challenge you for the bucket of feed, lay into him with 'horse aggression', kind of like Josey Whales told Granny and Chief when it came down to survival, "you have got to get lowdown mean". lol When he sees he has made a mistake, the rest see it too, they already know 'not' to challenge mr or ms boss so they will usually not bother to challenge you either after witnessing you will take up for yourself. The distance of reach that a horse can bite or kick may be further than many may think, they are fast moving creatures though large in size. Even the gentlest of horses can hurt you at feeding time if this natural horse order has not been established. Always 'demand' a distance which you feel safe in....
Phillip
William Bagwell:
--- Quote from: Ben Framed on January 02, 2023, 08:18:01 am --- which a bite is bad enough for a horse but can be devastating to a human!
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1997 I had an encounter with a baby copperhead (long story...) Small rural hospital with a two bed emergency room. While I was there a man was brought in who had been bitten by a horse, on his neck! Got a good look before they closed the curtain between us, and absolutely would not have traded places with him!
Ben Framed:
I understand William, I would like to hear more about the snake bite if you would like to share the experience sometime.
Jim is not the first to learn from the school of hard knocks. I took a really bad bite by one of my most gentle and prized horses. He would nod his head up and down at feeding time in his stall, while greeting me.. One day he nodded his head up and down and all of a sudden reached out with lightening speed and let me have it! In spite of being layered up with clothing and a vest, the bite turned my chest black and blue! I can not imaging this happening to a lady..
I always carried a limber leather Mexican type quirt on my wrist and did immediately retaliate but the damage was done. From that time forward anytime a horse met me with any time of visual excitement when approaching a stall, I would demand space even there at the front of the stall.
Phillip
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