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Author Topic: Making nucs for sale.  (Read 1876 times)

Offline Bob Wilson

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Making nucs for sale.
« on: May 21, 2022, 12:01:56 am »
I made up a batch of nucs for sale earlier this spring, as I knocked back hive population for swarm control.
I was encouraged to sell a good, full 5 frame nuc, worth the money, and I did.
However, there is a fine line between a nuc that is good value, full of bees, brood, and resources VS a packed nuc, pushed to the beginning of swarm impulse.
Insights?

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2022, 12:43:01 am »
Yup, the insight is do not build the nuc in advance. Build it on the day of or day before of pickup, not sooner. Also instruct the buyer to transfer into a full size hive in the evening of the day they pickup the nuc.
When selling colonies, the nuc box is a constraining temporary holding space valid for only 2 - 3 days. If you built the colony properly, within 1 week the mature brood is emerging and the colony fills a 10 frame box.
So ... do not build them in advance and instruct to have them re-hived on the same day or within 3 days max.

Hope that helps.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2022, 09:54:24 am »
I have to think this out...
In creating nucs from excess early spring population, I help them make QCs. But those QCs have to emerge, mate, and become proven layers before I sell the nuc.
This year I did that in 5 frame nucs, which I kept until they built up in population.
Instead, I could pull the existing, over wintered queens from the original hives, with resources, and sell them immediately, but that messes with my own spring build up time line.
I could make QCs in one big hive, wait until capped, place in 2 frame nucs, then after they emerge, mate, and start laying, I could transfer those 2 frames, plus other pulled resources to make 5 frame nucs to be picked up that day.
Is that how you beeks do it?
I was trying to avoid the whole grafting setup, and just make nucs for sale.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2022, 11:23:02 am »
Bob, I work it like you proposed, because I don't have a big op and a queen bank.

Also, the Buyers tend to be 1 or 2 nucs at a time, and I have limited equipment.  And although they may say "I want to pickup on the weekend" things can come up and it could be 2 weeks before the buyer actually can make it here, and so each nuc needs stores checks, trashtray emptied, SHB check, additional hive body, so on... until it goes into a buyer's hive.

Tending to the nuc includes swarm control, including culling a frame of capped bees if your nuc is about to have a population explosion. I sell 7 medium 100%-built frames as a nuc.  I would sell the whole 10-frame colony but people will not pay more, and I need the comb.

I use medium frames. The ticket for me is to make the nucs with one frame capped brood, one frame eggs on new-ish wax (fewer cocoons to chew), one frame of pollen/honey, one frame mixed.  That's enough to bring the brood to maturity, but I want to keep them at work while they wait for Q to mature, so I also feed 1:1 in a feeding rim.

Plus as a "team"  colony working together for awhile, I think the bees are less likely to abscond in a Buyer's new location, when they have a hive mind. (- anecdotal, no science - )


Offline TheHoneyPump

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Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2022, 11:32:18 am »
Youve got the right idea.  Your only issue to separate out is that you are approaching the sale nuc and the mating nuc as synonymous. They are not. 
Pull excess bee power out into mating nucs. Pulling power is not limited to the hives, it includes pulling power from nucs that are already out.  So long as it exists keep pulling it and making more, it is a continuous process, all season long.  As the queens are made and mated, recombine the good ones with the failed ones into the sales nucs.   You do not grow your sales nuc, you build it, and the build is no more than just a few days before releasing.
You do not need to graft. Timelines are significantly shortened and success rate is much higher if you do.  But it is not essential.  Some suppliers buy mated queens, introduce her to the nuc then sell the nuc soon as she is out a week later. That is actually how many of the big quantity nuc sellers are doing it, they use bought mated queens.
To make your own and to keep it simple, just:   Pull and set out, pull and set out, pull and set out, recombine-build and sale,   Pull and set out, pull and set out, pull and set out, recombine-build and sale,   Pull and set out, pull and set out, pull and set out, recombine-build and sale, .. and so on. Every week and all season long.
Stop when the bees tell you to stop, which is when they are not making excess power anymore or the mating nucs are failing more often than succeeding.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 11:55:26 am by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2022, 09:48:02 pm »
In the southeast US the nucs must be strong enough to ward off the SHB.  They can?t be just mini mating nucs or 2 frame. There have to be enough bees to fight a good fight and guard all comb.
 Else the slime out. 

I leave the the entrance reducer to one-bee width which is fine with a good landing board. 

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 07:18:11 am »
Bob
I think your idea of a nuc is correct, brood, bees with a laying queen. Our are sold as the new queen has enough brood to assess her laying ability.
If the nucs are getting too strong then take a frame of brood and bees out of each and make another nuc. Just don't take a queen.
Our clients expect a full 5 frame nuc that they can put into their box straight away.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 10:17:18 pm »
I understand.
In my mind, I was thinking of growing a nuc, instead of building it. I put the nucs together early spring, with a couple of empty frames, and let them make their own queen and fill the nuc. I waited until they got full to sell, then had trouble setting an agreed upon date.
That is very different than...
1. Packing a hive so it will make great swarm cells.
2. Dividing them into nucs to emerge, mate, and lay.
3. Set the date for custome pickup
4. Build the nuc full the day before, by adding resources and capped brood from other hives and nucs.
In that case, it will be a nice, full nuc, but not swarm minded. That what I seem to be learning from this thread.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2022, 10:33:38 am »
I do not commit to a pick up date, the season will control this.
Just do the numbers, put brood into nuc, 16 days to hatch, 5-10 for new queen to mate, 3-4 to lay, 21 to hatch, so about 50-60 days from making the nuc should be ok to sell.
Brood you have put in will have hatched and so will be full of bees, new brood is hatching for the customer to fill out the new box.
I then ring the customer and say the nuc is ready to pick up.
So down under the nucs made early Sept will be ready late Oct to early Nov, that is as much as the customer gets for a pickup date.

I don't think the nuc made the day before is a good deal to the customer, even if you are adding a mated queen. Is it all going to come together?

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2022, 11:29:20 pm »
If the queen has emerged, mated, and has laid up a couple of frames well? I would think she would be established then, even when adding another frame or two of capped brood the day before pickup to finish making a solid, full nuc.
The customer gets a solid queen, a resource frame, her own brood in all stages and the added capped brood frames, which will emerge in a week filling out his 10 frame hive and giving the queen more room to lay.
As long as the queen is mated and laying well on two or three frames, I can build (add more pulled frames to) a nuc for pickup the next day, and it would still come together as a solid, healthy nuc. Right?

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2022, 12:58:52 am »
Yes
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2022, 06:13:34 pm »
Hi Bob
I agree with HP but if the 4-5 frame nuc had 2 frames of brood and plenty of bees then this would constitute a nuc for sale for me.
If the client wanted a quicker hive then i would charge for the extra 2 frames of brood.
Present price for a nuc is $170 and the extra frames of brood would be $20 each, so total cost $210.
Depends on prices in your area.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2022, 11:22:09 pm »
$175 to $185 in Georgia. We will see what happens next spring. Our June-September dearth is almost here. Then hopefully we will get some last minute fall flow in Oct-Nov.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2022, 12:27:56 am »
Wow, I've been selling nucs from March 1 splits for $150, 7-8 frames of brood, can barely fit in 10 frames now. 

I've been putting in peoples' hives, but it's complicated. 

Are you breeders just handing off a plastic/coroplast Jester/ProNuc?  Which type is preferred? I'd think the ProNuc is better quality ...?

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2022, 07:37:10 am »
I made some basic wooden ones. Except for the time and effort, they were cheaper in material costs, and I thought the wooden box would be a plus for persuading people to buy mine. Little did I know that I would sell out and still have a waiting list.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2022, 05:45:44 am »
Bob
$170 is the nuc in your box, we do not sell our hardware.
At the worst they get the nuc in a 5 frame corflute box for transport. There is an extra cost of $20 for the corflute box.
No wonder you sold out with that offer.
A nuc is half a box of bees, if it is more than that then it is a box of bees and so you need to charge appropriately. Do not under value your industry.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2022, 08:21:31 am »
That may be. I scoured the internet for my area and priced  mine accordingly. They were selling in those jester boxes, which at that time were $10-15 a piece. I assumed the box went with the bees, taped shut.
I only sold 6 nucs, but I will research it some more before next spring.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2022, 03:33:51 pm »
@OldBeavo - - - I agree, I don't want to under-value.  But I live in a rural-suburban area with reduced population.  Locally, people use Facebk Marketplace for almost all buy/sell.  But Facebk doesn't allow sales of bee colonies.

Our flow is so good here that an early nuc, well shepherded, can bring in 50-100 lbs of honey by fall.... worth $400-$1000 per harvest. 

An early nuc - even a mid-spring nuc - is a great investment.  That doesn't mean they're flying off the hive stand at 4 per week.  And each buyer requires much time. 

And -- A good flow means nucs grow fast.  A newly mated queen needs to go into 10 frames very quickly!  Without having limitless equipment there's only so many bees that can pack out the gear...before the bees decide to propigate by themselves.  I have only so much time to tend to them, because they don't manage themselves even if fully established.

That's MY problem not Bob W's.     :) 

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Making nucs for sale.
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2022, 08:48:51 pm »
FG
Your comment of each buyer requires time is relevant.
Some buyers expect a mini bee course so the price of a nuc cannot be too low.

We aquired the materials for nucs when making  boxes. If the timber had a loose knot or other issues we would still cut the piece but put it aside to make nucs. At present we run about 90 nuc boxes for Spring flush splitting.
As nucs only spend 3 or 4 months in the field then the timber quality can be less. We have some that are made out of pallet timber but have 3 coats of paint.