Questions on hive space and swarming

[TheFuzz]

What happens to a hive when it's full of honey? Even if it's four supers deep, if it's completely full, will the bees seek to swarm so the queen can keep laying eggs? Do the bees not slow down in bringing in honey even if the hive is full and the queen doesn't have space to lay eggs? Is it risky for the survival of the colony to abandon the hive to swarm when their supers are full?

If a beekeeper shows up to their apiary, and see their hives are full, will taking honey from the top supers be sufficient in providing them with space? Will the queen crawl up to the top super, even if it's four deep, to lay eggs up there? Or will this simply prevent the bees from filling up the brood chamber with honey, allowing the queen to lay eggs in the brood chamber?

If a beekeeper notices that the hive is completely full and does a honey extraction on the top super, should the beekeeper ideally take frames from the brood chamber, and swap them with the empty, extracted frames up top?

Would simply placing an empty super on top of a full hive, provide the bees with the space they need so they don't swarm?

[Michael Bush]

Swarming is set off by a combination of things including the time of year, the climate, the flow, the space, the heat etc.  Before the flow the main thing is to keep the brood nest open.  During and after the flow the main thing is don't let them run out of room.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

[TheFuzz]

How often will the bees have space to store more honey, but the queen has run out of space in the brood chamber? Should I be checking the brood chamber every time I open a chamber, to see how the queen is laying and how much space she has down there?

[TheHoneyPump]

Fuzz, if you go through Mr Bush link he has provided above as well as take the time to read through and study the additional material across the rest of his site, you will have much more insight into the answers to your questions.  Please have a good read there.  Wealth of information and experience shared.

As far as the question as to how quickly, how often, the bees will fill the boxes with nectar/honey.  That is entirely regional and flow conditions dependent.  As example, I am in the middle of the heavy humid heat of July flow right at this moment. Abundant floral sources, strong healthy hives. The bees are going just absolutely nuts completely filling and capping 2 deep boxes in 4 days.  Some of my hives I have had to stack to 7 deep boxes high right now, simply to buy time because I can't get around to harvest all of them faster than they are filling them.  I do not go into the brood nest at this time in these conditions. Far too much equipment to handle to get down there, too many bees, and I would not be able to fix anything I would find at this time anyways.  TheHoneyPump is at full flow capacity. ;).    I have no concerns about swarming.  Swarm prevention and control is done long before getting to this stage.

It is mid summer, peak summer here.  I see your location is Australia.  So definitely different season is upon you down under.  Would it be spring, fall or winter for you there at this time?

.

[Donovan J]

Fuzz, if you go through Mr Bush link he has provided above as well as take the time to read through and study the additional material across the rest of his site, you will have much more insight into the answers to your questions.  Please have a good read there.  Wealth of information and experience shared.

As far as the question as to how quickly, how often, the bees will fill the boxes with nectar/honey.  That is entirely regional and flow conditions dependent.  As example, I am in the middle of the heavy humid heat of July flow right at this moment. Abundant floral sources, strong healthy hives. The bees are going just absolutely nuts completely filling and capping 2 deep boxes in 4 days.  Some of my hives I have had to stack to 7 deep boxes high right now, simply to buy time because I can't get around to harvest all of them faster than they are filling them.  I do not go into the brood nest at this time in these conditions. Far too much equipment to handle to get down there, too many bees, and I would not be able to fix anything I would find at this time anyways.  TheHoneyPump is at full flow capacity. ;).    I have no concerns about swarming.  Swarm prevention and control is done long before getting to this stage.

It is mid summer, peak summer here.  I see your location is Australia.  So definitely different season is upon you down under.  Would it be spring, fall or winter for you there at this time?

.

It would be middle of winter for them. I would guess they have a warm climate that barely goes below freezing.

[TheFuzz]

Yes, middle of winter, yes warm climate, rarely goes below freezing only sometimes on the coldest of winter nights and I don't think that happens most years and when it does it's just a few nights.

When is the right time to be checking the brood chamber? I rarely do so, the only time I seem to check the brood chamber is if for whatever reason I need a confirmation that there's a queen laying, or if I'm considering reducing a super and seeking to see what they're doing in the brood chamber.

I suppose I'm starting to wonder if I need to be more regularly checking the brood chamber as part of my regular inspection process. Usually the bees get aggressive and attack me when I go into their brood chamber, but maybe it'll be worth it. I'm more interested in seeing what they're doing in the brood chamber now that I have a greater understanding of it's significance.

[CoolBees]

I like to check the brood nest every 3 months - just to see if there's brood, and what it's condition is. Also to perform alcohol washes every 6 months (as I build an understanding of the cycles of things inside the hive).

I rarely dig all the way thru the broodnest. I try not to disturb them any more than necessary.

[Bee North]

Is three monthly enough?

Lets say you have AFB in one hive. You dont know because you havnt done an inspection for 2 months.

Stores are low on another hive of yours, so you give them a frame of honey. Havnt you now given the second hive AFB?

The drones from your infected hive have come over to my hive hive for a visit as i am your neighbour. I have a Virgin queen who is about to go mate with your drones...and so on.

Im not out to judge but im currently worried about my bees.

Today a neighbour of mine has recently found AFB in a hive.

 Thankfully he does regular inspections and has nipped it in the bud and burnt/ burried the hive.

He possibly saved his apiary and perhaps mine too.

Just a thought...im a newbee.

How often should we be checking to prevent the spread of disease...isnt that the question we should ask?

When im home i check fortnightly...monthly at the most as i work away.

Obviously this cant be done during winter for those who have one!!

[eltalia]

@Bee North wrote in part;
Im not out to judge but im currently worried about my bees.
Today a neighbour of mine has recently found AFB in a hive.
 Thankfully he does regular inspections and has nipped it in the bud and burnt/ burried the hive.
He possibly saved his apiary and perhaps mine too.

[cough]
Wellll... I am, not too concerned for social nicities in being seen as judgmental in
stating quite candidly it is exactly the resistance to inspections which endangers
us all - anywhere on the Planet.
1.Where bees are too stroppy to work on regularly ..?.... change the muthers out..!
2.Where you believe it is n0t necessary to do  BC checks then get reading and
educate yourself into becoming a responsible beekeeper and not just another beeHaver.
/calm/

Just jumping on your post Adam to ask if your neighbour has confirmed and
notified that AFB find with BSQ... it is a given you apply due diligence yourself
but those asking (or worse) argue agianst inspections I do worry for.

Cheers...

Bill

[Bee North]

Thanks Bill.

I found out through my bee club. ...I assume the find has been reported as all members have been informed.

When i say my neighbour...in my area, so to speak. You know what i mean.

Rgds
Adam

[eltalia]

Thanks Bill.

I found out through my bee club. ...I assume the find has been reported as all members have been informed.

When i say my neighbour...in my area, so to speak. You know what i mean.

Rgds
Adam

Ahh yeh... it'd be under control then. Good one.

An' yeh logistically speaking you're my neighbour as there is at least one
bloke out of Cairns moving around the Forty Mile at the moment which is
a stone's throw from our outyard. And more will be up here flooding the
southern tableland as the orchards kick off for the season.
All a worry, despite our deliberate buffer zone. We cannot afford to shift
camp again, too tired, getting too old, and definitely too broke!
/chuckles/

Cheers...

Bill

[Oldbeavo]

The Fuzz
Where are you inn Australia?
If you are in southern OZ the answer to your question is different to Queensland.
Hives in Victoria may have very little brood but be OK.

[TheFuzz]

I'm located in South Australia!

[van from Arkansas]

Eltalia, hey Bill, good to have to back, ol Buddy down under.  How is the flesh and bones, you gettin around OK?  Can you inspect ok?  Wish you the best my friend,,,, wish you the best!!
Cheers
Van

[Ben Framed]

Eltalia, hey Bill, good to have to back, ol Buddy down under.  How is the flesh and bones, you gettin around OK?  Can you inspect hives unassisted?  Wish you the best my friend,,,, wish you the best!!
Cheers
Van

Mr Bill
I read the previous post By Van  which may suggest you are having a bit of difficulty. You have been very kind to answer me. Both here publicly and privately via PM. Your knowledge is so very valuable and appreciated.  I watched the following video and others which should be a tremendous help to anyone, with or without a physical slow down. This Guy built this cheaply. There are others which are far more expensive, (Factory made), so to speak which have battery operated capable controls. I am thinking this can be modified on the home build rig below? Wishing the best to you and for you Sir.
Phillip .

https://youtu.be/318rE043rb8
https://youtu.be/y8caZ0QQ13U

[eltalia]

G'day Van & Phillip... thanks for the kind thoughts buuuut we have had our Plan
in place for some time now and meet the challenge, so far.
That being transition into longhives and in retirement scale back to numbers
less than can be counted on the only fingers that still work (well)... heh heh.
Pulling honey for stores this weekend and jumping on the aeroplane tomorrow
for some R&R in the big smoke (City).

Cheers...

Bill

--

[Ben Framed]

G'day Van & Phillip... thanks for the kind thoughts buuuut we have had our Plan
in place for some time now and meet the challenge, so far.
That being transition into longhives and in retirement scale back to numbers
less than can be counted on the only fingers that still work (well)... heh heh.
Pulling honey for stores this weekend and jumping on the aeroplane tomorrow
for some R&R in the big smoke (City).

Cheers...

Bill

--

You are welcome, enjoy your R&R in the big smoke (City). 
Phillip

[TheFuzz]

Recently, I needed to add a super to my hives, to give them extra space for the spring that's happening now in Australia. Each hive was a little different, but they were all quite overdue for an extra super and was running out of space. I thought they would swarm possibly, but there wasn't much actual bees in the hives and I couldn't find any queen cells.

One hive was a single deep, it had a detachable base. Instead of adding a super on top, I decided to lift the whole thing off the base, and add a super underneath. I did this because the super was quite full of honey, and I figured I'd be creating more space for laying brood by placing the empty super where the queen prefers to lay, on the bottom super. Was this a mistake, or is this a good practice?

Another hive I had didn't have a detachable base. It only had two deep supers together, which were both quite full, especially the super on top was full of honey. I only had a manley sized super to add, so I decided to put the empty manley super between the bottom, and top super. The practice seems to usually be add the manley on top, deeps to have as brood chambers down below, but if I was adding a super to expand the brood chamber, to keep the queen laying and mitigate chances of swaming, did I do the right thing?

[BeeMaster2]

Under supering works well especially like in your case, only one deep and it is full of honey. It helps to move a frame of pollen/honey if you still have cold spells.
Expanding the brood chamber is also effective but with cold spells, add the empty frames next to the brood. You can remove a frame in the middle of the brood chamber if the bees are packed solid in the hive. They will have to fill the void with bees.
Jim Altmiller

[TheFuzz]

So remove a single frame of brood in the middle, replace it with an empty frame, then move that frame in the box right above, in the center so the brood doesn't get too cold?

[BeeMaster2]

If you still have cold spells, no. Move a frame of pollen/honey up. Put an empty frame next to the brood.
Jim Altmiller