My queens keep dying

[CoolBees]

I have a 2nd bee yard at a friend's house, in a beautiful neighborhood. All the queens there keep dying. I've been watching this for the last 2 years. I suspect poison of some kind.

(There are no dead bees around any hive)

This year I thought "I'll only put hives there for the main flow". I was hoping that the bees would be too busy to go after any poisons.

It didn't work. I placed one very healthy over-wintered queen/hive there on Feb 1st, as the 1st blooms popped out en-mass - to test my theory. The hive went queenleess immediately. I thought maybe she got damaged in transit, so I waited. I checked again on March 4th. The new queen had 8 frames layed up - all on white wax, with lots of capped brood. But she looked "sick". She was stumbling around, and bees were climbing over her like she wasn't there.

I checked again today. The hive is full of QC's and queenless again. I split 8 frames out for another hive.

That's the routine I've observed at this location - each hive requeens, and requeens, and requeens, as it dwindles.

It sucks. This yard is in a beautiful area full of flowering trees in all directions. The bees drew 4 boxes of white wax in the last 5 weeks. ... but a neighbor sprays chemicals all over his property - I've watched him. It just sucks. 

Any thoughts/advice welcome.

[Ben Framed]

Alan I have never heard of this. I feel for you . I hope you find out what the problem is. When you find out please share with us. Most likely someone here will have an answer.

Phillip Hall

[van from Arkansas]

I believe the problem is already known:  neighbor that cool watches: spraying ALL OVER.

Sorry, Cool, you deserve better neighbors.

[Ben Framed]

Mr Van I believe you are right but what puzzles me is only the queen is dying? He said no other dead bees. Wonder if they may be taking the deads ones away? If so, (poisoning), wouldn't the bees be dying at an alarming rate as the poisoning you had last season? At least to the point of seeing hundreds around the entrance of his hive? The queen only part is what puzzles me.

"(There are no dead bees around any hive)"

Phillip

[CoolBees]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know the symptoms of Sevin on a hive?

Thanks.

[Ben Framed]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know the symptoms of Sevin on a hive?

Thanks.

Mr Van, I can't remember for sure but wasn't some of your sickly ones quivering? I do remember iddee saying seven dust or seven?

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

Alan this may leading to a situation that is worthy of sending the dead queen for diagnosis? If a sure pinpoint answer is not given or found? Again I tend to agree with Mr Van but the queen alone dying is my only drawback.

Phillip Hall

[CoolBees]

Phillip - I haven't found a dead queen. Just observed the constant re-queening.

[Ben Framed]

Phillip - I haven't found a dead queen. Just observed the constant re-queening.

Sorry I misunderstood, I guess the sick one that the bees were running over threw me lol. I got the cart before the horse. In that case could it be that they are simply swarming and cutting down the cells after the new emerging? I went back again and reread your first post. I tend to think swarming is the answer, except for the sickly queen that was getting over run?  Sounds just like what Van and Paus and others told me. Before a queen swarms they bump her around making her lose weight so she can make the swarm flight. I would say most likely this is your answer?

Phillip Hall

[CoolBees]

Phillip - I haven't found a dead queen. Just observed the constant re-queening.

Sorry I misunderstood, I guess the sick one that the bees were running over threw me lol. I got the cart before the horse. In that case could it be that they are simply swarming and cutting down the cells after the new emerging? I went back again and reread your first post. I tend to think swarming is the answer, except for the sickly queen that was getting over run?  Sounds just like what Van and Paus and others told me. Before a queen swarms they bump her around making her lose weight so she can make the swarm flight. I would say most likely this is your answer?

Phillip Hall

Definitely not swarming. Queens last between 3 days and 3 weeks on this property. I've watched and documented it for 3 yrs now. The queens keep dying on this property.

[CapnChkn]

I don't suppose you see behavior like the workers removing all the brood, do you?  I can't give you a direct answer, but bees kind of over-react when it comes to problems, and seem to blame the queen.  I have been struggling with my bees being strong and well-to-do, then crashing, the queens going missing, and them taking all the brood out of the hive.  Last year, after the inspector came out and told me it looks like "a behavioral problem," I pretty much left them alone.

I had to peel my SHB trap out of one, the bees had proplized the thing shut, and the beetle mummies inside shook like sand in a maraca.  But I made it through the winter with 3 out of 5 still intact.  That's not really a victory, it's the first time I've had a winter dead-out.  The hives were empty of bees, one had a patch of brood that a few dozen nurse bees were tending.  All the honey still in the frames.  Summer problems, sure.  SHB usually, a few abscondings, and around here, robbing frenzy, but never a winter dead-out.

My 2 cents is there is something that's disturbing them, and they're taking it out on the queens.

[Ben Framed]

I know that you know what you are talking about. As you were posting, I went back and copied and pasted what paus and Mr van told. Since I went through the research of finding this, I am going to post it anyway and move on to something else that may help you. So please bare with me.


Quote from: paus on February 23, 2020, 12:00:41 am
Your question is answered in "Honeybee Democracy".  I am not a writer of such ability that I can explain this, but to sum up the activity that causes her to lose weight  is a continual bumping and general harassment for a period of time by the bees in the hive this causes the queen to slim up or slim down, anyway she loses weight.

Quote from: van from Arkansas on February 23, 2020, 06:00:16 pm
Paus, exactly what I read in the same excellent book by Seeley, a good read for understanding honeybees.  I keep this well written book close at hand.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Now since you are sure they are dying I have a another suggestion for you. Watch them close in this yard. When you see the same circumstances of a sickly queen with the bees running over her, pull that frame, queen, nurse bees and all. NO queen cells, this is imperative, no queen cells transferred into this setup. Place this in a two frame nuc along with an empty drawn out frame. Also dump (shake) another frame of bees in with them. In the entrance, already have a queen excluder in place with a screen covering this so none of your bees escape while in transport. Ms Queen can not leave either dead or alive.  (Let me add, don't forget to remove the screen at the new location so the workers can come and go). Take this set up away from the apiary and to another location, NOT around any of your other yards. Give this hive a few days if not a week. Look inside and see what you find. If you find the dead queen send her off. If she is laying well and strong look in another direction. lol
Best to you,

Phillip Hall




                                                                                                                                                       .

[CoolBees]

...
Now since you are sure they are dying I have a another suggestion for you. Watch them close in this yard. When you see the same circumstances of a sickly queen with the bees running over her, pull that frame, queen, nurse bees and all. NO queen cells, this is imperative, no queen cells transferred into this setup. Place this in a two frame nuc along with an empty drawn out frame. Also dump another frame of bees in with them. In the entrance, already have a queen excluder in place so Ms Queen can not leave either dead or alive. When you get this done add a screen for transport. (Let me add, don't forget to remove the screen at the new location so the workers can come and go). Take this set up away from the apiary and to another location, NOT around any of your other yards. Give this hive a few days if not a week. Look inside and see what you find. If you find the dead queen send her off. If she is laying well and strong look in another direction. lol
Best to you,

Phillip Hall
                                                                                                                                                 

Not a bad idea Phillip. I'll have wait till they've requeened, to try it. Thanks.

[Ben Framed]

Your welcome Alan, this is a real stumper. Please let us know what happens (if) or when this does happen. I will really appreciate it. This could happen to others of us here also in the future.
PS I hope it does not happen to you again though, hopefully something we can count as one of those mysteries. LOL
Thanks, Phillip

[FloridaGardener]

I have two colonies at a friend's home that over the last year just aren't thriving as well as at my main yard. But there's loads of forage nearby. ~What gives?~
 
I finally figured out last week that a neighbor there uses an incredibly stinky dryer sheet, and their dryer vent exhausts very close to the hives.  The poor bees in their hives are drowning in a phthalate soup when the dryer runs - a known endocrine disrupting chemical. 

I'm relocating the hives to a different friend's home as soon as I finish a new hive stand this weekend. And I did verify - no dryer sheets used there!

https://www.ewg.org/enviroblog/2016/05/skip-fabric-softeners

[van from Arkansas]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know the symptoms of Sevin on a hive?

Thanks.

The bees act as if coated with hot pepper sauce:  constantly rubbing their bodies, extreme cleaning, nervously walking about the entrance, quivering.  Dead bees in front of the hive, like hundreds of dead bees,

[MikeyN.C.]

Cool,  is there any hives that live in the local area ?

[CoolBees]

Cool,  is there any hives that live in the local area ?

Not that I know of. Maybe a feral hive or 2.

[CoolBees]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know the symptoms of Sevin on a hive?

Thanks.

The bees act as if coated with hot pepper sauce:  constantly rubbing their bodies, extreme cleaning, nervously walking about the entrance, quivering.  Dead bees in front of the hive, like hundreds of dead bees,

Thanks for that Van. These bees don't act that way, although they get pissy over at that property, but that's all.

[MikeyN.C.]

What's the liquid sevan ?  That is supposed to be gone in so many hrs.  I've always read that poisoned bee's. You'll have big kill rate

[Ben Framed]

What's the liquid sevan ?  That is supposed to be gone in so many hrs.  I've always read that poisoned bee's. You'll have big kill rate

How to Mix Liquid Sevin
Written by Shelley Marie; Updated December 29, 2018
How to Mix Liquid Sevin
SVproduction/iStock/GettyImages

Mixing Instructions for Diazinon 500
Sevin liquid concentrate is made from carbaryl, a broad-spectrum insecticide designed for use on vegetables, fruits, small trees, flowers and shrubs. Carbaryl kills insects by disrupting their nervous systems. It's effective on more than 100 different types of pests and is one of the most commonly used pesticides in the United States. Mixing and application rates vary depending on the type of plant that requires treatment. It's best to apply liquid Sevin on days with calm winds and when no rain is expected for at least 24 hours.

[Ben Framed]

"I believe the problem is already known:  neighbor that cool watches: spraying ALL OVER.

Sorry, Cool, you deserve better neighbors."

Van are you sure about this? What type pesticide singles out and only kills the queen bee? May be that the neighbors are decent folks. Alan maybe you can have a talk with these folks and find out what it is they are using that may only kill queens? Personally I am departing from the pesticide theory until we know more. There must be another reason or answer?

Phillip

[CoolBees]

At my local Hone Depot, there are numerous Sevin products, not just liquids.

I assumed Sevin was the cause of the queens dying, but I have no actual knowledge of that as the specific cause. That's why I posted here - hoping someone might know.

Right now, I'm under the assumption that it is "some chemical agent" causing repeated queen failure.

My home apiary is about 1.2 miles from this [problem] site. I don't have this problem with queen loss at my house.

[Donovan J]

Maybe another hive in the area is diseased and the drones that are mating with the queens are passing the disease on, therefore killing the queen. I might be completely wrong but this seems to be the only reason.

[The15thMember]

My home apiary is about 1.2 miles from this [problem] site. I don't have this problem with queen loss at my house.

That seems really strange to me.  That means that your home bees are close enough to be potentially foraging on the same plants as the bees at this troublesome site.  That makes me think that it may not be something environmental.  But I don't have any idea really, just kind of thinking out loud here. 

[CapnChkn]

Personally I am departing from the pesticide theory until we know more.

Since the city here sprays, I also thought the pesticide issue was part of it.  I don't know if the problem is the pesticide.  I verified with all the neighbors that they were not using excessive pesticide, and most used nothing.  On the other hand, I have had the worst problem with my Purple Martin Gourds, because there's no night flying insects to pollinate them.

They spray at night, it seems to not effect my bees.  It's a Permethrin based chemical, so at least I can claim my seed is grown organically.