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Author Topic: Feeding Bees Others' Honey  (Read 4426 times)

Offline Terri Yaki

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Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« on: November 17, 2023, 09:54:46 am »
I've been reading up a lot on Reddit and I saw where a poster was advised against feeding bees other bees' honey. They found a bee that was not looking too good and they wanted to help it so they gave it some honey. What are the ramifications of feeding bees honey from other bees? I've read about moving stores around hives from those who have plenty to those that are weak so is it a matter of how close the source is?

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2023, 10:45:38 am »
I think it depends on the situation.  I have put out extracted comb for bees to clean.  I have switched resources from hive to hive.  There's always the chance of moving disease into hives with combs of honey.  Not sure of the whole story you read, but if a hive is in danger of starving then feeding is better than not feeding.

When you say
Quote
They found a bee that was not looking too good
  did they try to feed one solitary bee?   :grin:
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2023, 12:21:03 pm »
I would only feed bees other bees' honey if I knew intimately the source of said honey.  Like Kathy said, I move honey frames around between my one colonies all the time, although I always freeze them first so I don't give one hive's pests to another.  I'd be hesitant about feeding my bees honey from someone else's bees, unless it was someone whose management habits I knew very well, and I'd never feed my bees store-bought honey.   

If I was rescuing an individual struggling bee as an act of charity, something I have done with a solitary native bee or two, since that female represents an entire nest, I wouldn't be picky about what I gave them as a pick-me-up.   
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Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2023, 05:04:35 pm »
I think it depends on the situation.  I have put out extracted comb for bees to clean.  I have switched resources from hive to hive.  There's always the chance of moving disease into hives with combs of honey.  Not sure of the whole story you read, but if a hive is in danger of starving then feeding is better than not feeding.

When you say
Quote
They found a bee that was not looking too good
  did they try to feed one solitary bee?   :grin:[/b]
Yes, it was a solitary bee that looked distressed. I just read and didn't add anything to the discussion and a couple of contributors posted that the should not feed honey to it. Water and sugar water, they said yes but not honey. I didn't understand why not, as I was under the impression that honey didn't carry diseases or anything. Store bought honey might be diluted or even not honey at all but I was wondering what i could hurt, if anything. And to expand on it. My neighbor has his bees and he's only a couple hundred yards from me. Would it be hazardous for us to swap resources if we need to?

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2023, 05:22:57 pm »
I don't have any experience with disease transmission through honey specifically, but I would think that a colony with a bacterial or fungal brood disease like foulbrood or chalkbrood would probably have the bacteria/spores in their honey.  I personally also wouldn't want to take frames of honey from someone who I knew treated with hard chemicals, because I don't, and I wouldn't want any wax that could be laced with any of that stuff.   
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2023, 05:43:22 pm »
Quote
Would it be hazardous for us to swap resources if we need to?

It's a risk vs reward kind of thing.  I used to do a fair number of cutouts.  I brought those bees and what I could salvage of their brood into my yard.  A lot of sticky honey came along with the equipment and I let the bees clean it up.  never had a problem, but maybe just lucky?  If it was a honey heavy hive, I'd crush and strain for me, and put the crushed comb out for cleanup. 
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2023, 08:19:00 pm »
Terri,
I think what you read was dealing with store bought honey. We never feed our bees store bought honey. A lot of commercial beekeepers have been treating their hives for decades for AFB (American Foul Brood). When you buy honey it doesn?t come from one hive, it may come from hundreds of hives from many different apiaries and probably has some Chinese honey mixed in. All it takes is honey from one hive that has AFB spores to infect your hives. If your bees get AFB, they will all need to bee burned.
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Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2023, 01:36:09 am »
As far as helping a single weak looking bee, as beekeepers, we don't worry about that. It's true that we brush a few bees away while closing a hive, but we treat the whole colony as a single unit and gauge it's health as a whole. We might as well try to water and fertilize a single blade of grass in the lawn. In a whole hive of bees, there are always a few struggling or dying bees. That's natural.

Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2023, 07:34:14 am »
Terri,
I think what you read was dealing with store bought honey. We never feed our bees store bought honey. A lot of commercial beekeepers have been treating their hives for decades for AFB (American Foul Brood). When you buy honey it doesn?t come from one hive, it may come from hundreds of hives from many different apiaries and probably has some Chinese honey mixed in. All it takes is honey from one hive that has AFB spores to infect your hives. If your bees get AFB, they will all need to bee burned.
Jim Altmiller
:shocked:  So foul brood can be transmitted through the honey then? What else can? I have heard that foul brood is a pretty bad infliction. And none of those are a danger to humans, it seems.

As far as helping a single weak looking bee, as beekeepers, we don't worry about that. It's true that we brush a few bees away while closing a hive, but we treat the whole colony as a single unit and gauge it's health as a whole. We might as well try to water and fertilize a single blade of grass in the lawn. In a whole hive of bees, there are always a few struggling or dying bees. That's natural.
I know but apparently, a lot of people don't realize that. Another user did bring that up, along with the possibility that the bee was near the end of its short life. There seem to be a good number of people who will do what they can to save anything, including stuff that I just want out of my house, dead or alive.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2023, 01:00:32 pm »
:shocked:  So foul brood can be transmitted through the honey then? What else can? I have heard that foul brood is a pretty bad infliction. And none of those are a danger to humans, it seems.
The only bacterium honey can carry that is dangerous to humans that I'm aware of is botulism, and only in quantities that could harm an infant or someone who was severely compromised in their gut health or immune system.  This is why honey bottles often have a warning that says not to give honey to children under 2 years of age.  The high sugar content of honey kills some bacteria/fungi through osmosis, but for others, like foulbrood and botulism, it just causes the microorganisms to go dormant and not reproduce, which means when they enter an environment that is favorable for reproduction, like the gut of a bee or human, they can awaken and get back to work.

As far as helping a single weak looking bee, as beekeepers, we don't worry about that. It's true that we brush a few bees away while closing a hive, but we treat the whole colony as a single unit and gauge it's health as a whole. We might as well try to water and fertilize a single blade of grass in the lawn. In a whole hive of bees, there are always a few struggling or dying bees. That's natural.
I know but apparently, a lot of people don't realize that. Another user did bring that up, along with the possibility that the bee was near the end of its short life. There seem to be a good number of people who will do what they can to save anything, including stuff that I just want out of my house, dead or alive.
The thing about honey bees is they will often leave the hive to die if they can, so they don't make more work for the undertaker bees, so more often than not, a lone struggling honey bee has already gotten her affairs in order and made her peace, and there will be nothing you can do for her.  Now, the only major exception to that in my experience is if the weather was very warm in the morning, but in the evening the temperature quickly fell, and the bees became too cold to fly home before dark, and spent the night outside the hive.  If these bees aren't on a flower, they just need a little honey or syrup to give them the energy to get to a flower or get home, and if I find a bee in this situation, I'll give her a drop of honey to get her going again.  A bee like this will just be slow moving, because she doesn't have any energy.  But visually struggling bee is usually too far gone to save anyway, and as Bob said, is nothing to be concerned about.  In the summer, the individual bees live only for 6 weeks, so hundreds of them are dying every day.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2023, 02:18:47 pm »
Quote
There seem to be a good number of people who will do what they can to save anything, including stuff that I just want out of my house, dead or alive.

I get a fair number of calls from people who want me to pick the bees out of their flowering bushes.  They planted something the bees really like next to the front walk, and now don't like the bees in the bushes.  I try really hard not to laugh every time, but sometimes I fail.  2nd best calls are the ones to pick the bees from around the swimming pool.

No one wants to kill them, but no one wants them around.
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2023, 02:42:43 pm »
I'm a member of the School of Traditional Skills, and on their community just yesterday I answered a question from someone who was having bees getting into their livestock feed (several members were complaining about it, I think the warm winter is to blame), and the question was "What is the permaculture approach to getting rid of them?"  I was thinking (but did not say of course), "Dude, the 'permaculture approach' is to leave them alone.  They aren't some sort of pest." 
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2023, 04:45:57 pm »
If the feed is sweet feed they are after the sugar.  If not, they are probably just collecting the dust.  And that's assuming they are honeybees.  A lot of people can't tell one type of flying thing from another.  Terri, if you are going to go on the swarm collecting-removal hunt, try to get people to send you a picture of what they want removed.  You'll find that very often it's not even honeybees!  A text message picture can save you a trip.
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2023, 05:09:08 pm »
If the feed is sweet feed they are after the sugar.  If not, they are probably just collecting the dust.  And that's assuming they are honeybees.  A lot of people can't tell one type of flying thing from another.  Terri, if you are going to go on the swarm collecting-removal hunt, try to get people to send you a picture of what they want removed.  You'll find that very often it's not even honeybees!  A text message picture can save you a trip.
I have noticed that from perusing Reddit. We have probably all lived out in the 'country' where the flying things abound. I can spot a hornets' nest from a mile away and though there may be many species of yellow jackets, I know one when I see one. They have many posts over there asking what is this 'bee' when it's one of the two mentioned above. I'm not looking to go collecting other than to inhabit two hives. I figure I'll get my first one through the club where I'm taking my classes and am not a member and one from the wild. That should hold me. Or is this one of those things the becomes a bad habit?

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2023, 05:45:12 pm »
That should hold me. Or is this one of those things the becomes a bad habit?
Yes.  :grin:  But the other problem is that if your bees are healthy, they will multiply, and there will be nothing you can do about it.  At some point, you will have more colonies than you need.  I am probably going to be in that boat this upcoming season for the first time, since my goal when I started was 10 hives.  I started with 2, and only 1 survived my first winter, so I really kind of started with 1.  I have 8 hives at the moment.  I have pledged to myself that I won't have more than 12.  Which probably means I'll enter next winter with 15.  :cheesy:
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Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2023, 06:36:10 pm »
That should hold me. Or is this one of those things the becomes a bad habit?
Yes.  :grin:  But the other problem is that if your bees are healthy, they will multiply, and there will be nothing you can do about it.  At some point, you will have more colonies than you need.  I am probably going to be in that boat this upcoming season for the first time, since my goal when I started was 10 hives.  I started with 2, and only 1 survived my first winter, so I really kind of started with 1.  I have 8 hives at the moment.  I have pledged to myself that I won't have more than 12.  Which probably means I'll enter next winter with 15.  :cheesy:
What kind of losses do you have every winter? Do you see an average to it?

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2023, 06:48:30 pm »
I usually lose one colony per winter.  Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I have lost exactly 1 colony every single winter, including this year, provided I don't lose another one.  I usually have one colony that goes into winter a little bit weak for some reason, and invariably they die or abscond.  It was an abscond this year.  I'm trying to be better about "taking my losses in the fall", combining weak colonies with strong ones going into winter, but losing one colony over the winter is no trouble to replace in the spring with a swarm or split. 
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2023, 06:17:11 am »
>So foul brood can be transmitted through the honey then? What else can?

Only American Foulbrood is a real issue when feeding honey.  As far as feeding your hives, I would recommend just sugar syrup with some Ascorbic acid in it.  The Ascorbic acid will moderate the pH, make it more appealing to the bees, and it's proven to keep brood healthier.  Honey is problematic for several reasons, not the least of which is the smell of honey being fed is very likely to set off robbing.

As far as feeding bees that aren't yours, you shouldn't.  I would be very unhappy to find out someone had been feeding my bees sugar syrup when I'm hoping to harvest honey (made from nectar).  I would also be unhappy to find they had been feeding honey, which might be contaminated with AFB spores.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2023, 05:38:09 am »
The only time I feed bees 'Others' Honey' is after extraction. I place the extracter, extracted combs, along with all equipment which might have honey on it, 'out' for the bees to feast on. It's first come, first serve, and they seem to have a of frenzy of a feast at that! It's amazing how quickly they can make short work of the cleaning job! The bonus is no honey is left to clean off the equipment when the bees are finished.  The emptied combs are amazingly void of stickiness as well, and nothing is wasted, (washed away or left to the ants)...Other than that, I do not feed honey (as such) to my bees, this includes honey from my yard or anyone else's.

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« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 06:09:38 am by Ben Framed »
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Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2023, 07:45:19 am »
The only time I feed bees 'Others' Honey' is after extraction. I place the extracter, extracted combs, along with all equipment which might have honey on it, 'out' for the bees to feast on. It's first come, first serve, and they seem to have a of frenzy of a feast at that! It's amazing how quickly they can make short work of the cleaning job! The bonus is no honey is left to clean off the equipment when the bees are finished.  The emptied combs are amazingly void of stickiness as well, and nothing is wasted, (washed away or left to the ants)...Other than that, I do not feed honey (as such) to my bees, this includes honey from my yard or anyone else's.

Phillip
If one had a hive in need and another flush with honey, would you move a frame over to the needy hive or is there a concern that disease could follow? And same with my neighbor, could we support each other if needed?

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2023, 10:06:01 am »
I feel comfortable transferring frames of honey from one colony to another, provided the donor colony is visibly healthy and I freeze the comb first to kill any waxworm/hive beetle eggs.  Struggling colonies that would need stores often have trouble dealing with pests, so that just prevents accidentally giving them a problem instead of a solution.     
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Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: Feeding Bees Others' Honey
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2023, 10:39:53 am »
I feel comfortable transferring frames of honey from one colony to another, provided the donor colony is visibly healthy and I freeze the comb first to kill any waxworm/hive beetle eggs.  Struggling colonies that would need stores often have trouble dealing with pests, so that just prevents accidentally giving them a problem instead of a solution.   
That freeze first is one to remember, thanks!

 

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