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Author Topic: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.  (Read 4948 times)

Offline BeeMaster2

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Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« on: August 29, 2019, 10:01:51 pm »
We really don?t know where Dorian is going but get your hives ready. I will be strapping my bees to the trailer and the rails and anchoring them down. I will also be getting the house and yard ready. I already checked the generator, ran it and hooked it up.
Bee safe.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2019, 10:05:19 pm »
We really don?t know where Dorian is going but get your hives ready. I will be strapping my bees to the trailer and the rails and anchoring them down. I will also be getting the house and yard ready. I already checked the generator, ran it and hooked it up.
Bee safe.
Jim Altmiller

Jim I am hoping this thing will take a turn out to sea. But it does not look good. Stay safe.
Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline jalentour

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Offline jalentour

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 12:35:15 am »
Believe it or not, hurricanes affect us in the Ohio Valley. 
Ike destroyed a lot of property in 2008, mine included. 
We get days of heavy rain and strong winds, sometimes destructive winds and hail.  Flooding, power outages, tornado, the works. 

North Georgia depends on hurricanes refilling their parched lakes. 
All part of nature. 
Best of luck to all in Florida. 

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2019, 07:39:52 am »
Staking my hives down today, boarded up Wednesday and finishing my prep today.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2019, 08:41:08 am »
My wife is in a NY panic.  I remind her this is what you wanted.  Shutters are up on the "new" home.  We are going to hunker down in the old one.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2019, 09:16:25 am »
Brian,
I looked up where you are located and where Dorian is going. You are only 13 feet above sea level per what I found. If this hurricane follows the track that they are predicting, with a category 4 hurricane, that puts you under water.
I have been in Florida since 1985. I have ridden out several hurricanes. I DO NOT ride out category 4 hurricane. They move too much water, sea water, and spun too many tornadoes.
Please get out of the way of this thing.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2019, 10:35:40 am »
Brian,
I looked up where you are located and where Dorian is going. You are only 13 feet above sea level per what I found. If this hurricane follows the track that they are predicting, with a category 4 hurricane, that puts you under water.
I have been in Florida since 1985. I have ridden out several hurricanes. I DO NOT ride out category 4 hurricane. They move too much water, sea water, and spun too many tornadoes.
Please get out of the way of this thing.
Jim Altmiller

Jim is right Brian, Please leave. Wishing you the best. Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Nock

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2019, 12:36:26 pm »
Good luck and stay safe.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2019, 12:53:27 pm »

Staking my hives down today, boarded up Wednesday and finishing my prep today.
p

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2019, 01:12:36 pm »
JC, Jim, Brian, all others in that state; wishing you the best.
Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2019, 01:21:03 pm »
Will do thanks

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2019, 02:11:15 pm »
At the current predicted track, we should be okay up here, but if Dorian crosses FL and gains strength in the gulf, WNC could be in for a real storm.  Will definitely be keeping tabs on the situation.  Everybody down south stay safe! 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2019, 04:29:40 pm »
We live one hour from Hurricane Michael's Cat 5 damage in Panama City.  The day before, every living creature was edgy.  Frogs climbed up high to windowsills and birdhouses.  I saw few birds, I think they went upland. 
       We closed up & moved our hives into the garage for the duration of the storm.   

In the storm, beeks lost thousands of hives.  Because of flooding, hordes of wasps came up out of the ground and annhiliated surviving colonies there, robbing everything and eating the brood. 

Sustained winds, even at lower velocity here, literally blew pollen and nectar off the plants.  All the feral bees were hungry and robbing...HANGRY. 

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2019, 09:18:32 pm »
Been getting ready over here by Port Orange. Strapped the hives down yesterday and spent today putting up plywood. Got my generator, 20 gallons of gas and plenty of water. So far they are calling for a Cat 2 in my area so I'll hunker down and sit it out. Expecting to loose power for a few days.
   The wife was asking about what would be the cutoff for evacuation, Cat 3 or Cat 4. A Cat 4 would time to beat feet and wouldn't want to be anywhere near a Cat 5.  Be safe out there.

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2019, 01:12:10 am »
Been getting ready over here by Port Orange. Strapped the hives down yesterday and spent today putting up plywood. Got my generator, 20 gallons of gas and plenty of water. So far they are calling for a Cat 2 in my area so I'll hunker down and sit it out. Expecting to loose power for a few days.
   The wife was asking about what would be the cutoff for evacuation, Cat 3 or Cat 4. A Cat 4 would time to beat feet and wouldn't want to be anywhere near a Cat 5.  Be safe out there.

Beeboy, What is your elevation above sea level?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2019, 05:36:07 am »
Beeboy,
According to Wikipedia, you are only 3 feet, .9 meters above sea level. Unless you are in an unusually high location, I would but out if I were you. Besides the storm surge, they are expecting large amounts of rain, especially along the coast. Were talking about 12 to 20 inches.
I?m at 100 feet above sea level and my houses are at almost the highest locations here at the farm. During hurricane Michael we had 10 inches of rain in just a few hours. My pond was 8 inches above the point where it overflows and runs out of the pipe. It overflows into my front yard and even with an 8 inch drain pipe that goes to the creek, the yard was flooded to the point that it was running across the driveway. If my house was not 2 feet above ground, I would have had flooding even though I am almost at the highest point in the area.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline saltybluegrass

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2019, 05:53:45 am »
Sitting right off my porch- got what I can strapped down
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Then all else falls in line
It?s up to me

Offline saltybluegrass

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2019, 06:02:07 am »
My wife is in a NY panic.  I remind her this is what you wanted.  Shutters are up on the "new" home.  We are going to hunker down in the old one.

I tried to reach out to you about visiting- if we have bees left - good luck Port St. Lucie here
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Then all else falls in line
It?s up to me

Offline saltybluegrass

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2019, 06:02:35 am »
Turning north
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Then all else falls in line
It?s up to me

Offline Acebird

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2019, 08:20:17 am »
Turning north
My brother in SC was checking in on our first hurricane preparation.  I asked him if he has shutters for his house.  He tells me the locals say it is not necessary.  Well yeah they are not until they are.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2019, 08:33:27 am »
Just looked at the latest path. It looks like eye of Dorian will stay off the coast until it gets to Charleston SC. It will be a category 4 most of the way so we will see some of it but no where near what they were originally predicting. Now the whole state will be on the port side. That means a whole lot less wind and rain.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2019, 02:29:38 pm »
I'm fine with elevation. The house was built on a raised berm about 10 feet high. I'm expecting a lot of flooding on the low lying sections of the property but will be OK. The hives are up behind the shop which was built on a rise also. Hope the projected path keeps moving East, only time will tell. 

Offline MikeCinWV

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2019, 03:19:05 pm »
Hoping it turns away.  Stay safe everyone.  You are in my thoughts.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2019, 05:22:01 pm »
Just looked at the latest path. It looks like eye of Dorian will stay off the coast until it gets to Charleston SC. It will be a category 4 most of the way so we will see some of it but no where near what they were originally predicting. Now the whole state will be on the port side. That means a whole lot less wind and rain.
Jim Altmiller

Jim, I am a bit confused about PORT SIDE less wind and rain?  Port side, starboard side: it?s a circle of wind to me so why is port side less wind and less rain than say starboard or stern?  I am not doubting you, I am asking you?

Jim, May you and family fair well through this Dorian!!
Blessings
Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2019, 06:45:50 pm »

Jim, I am a bit confused about PORT SIDE less wind and rain?  Port side, starboard side: it?s a circle of wind to me so why is port side less wind and less rain than say starboard or stern?  I am not doubting you, I am asking you?

Jim, May you and family fair well through this Dorian!!
Blessings
Van
Van, the right side of a hurricane (in the northern hemisphere) has stronger winds because the wind on that side is traveling the same direction as the whole storm is moving, thereby compounding the wind speed.  On the left side, the wind is blowing the opposite way the storm is moving, which causes the wind on that side to be less because the storm's forward motion is cancelling out some of the wind.  NOAA provides us with this graphic. 

I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2019, 07:08:19 pm »
WOW!!  Member, that makes perfect sense; condensed, direct to the point.  I like it.  So a slow moving storm is bad news in a way on the port side, Florida.  The other side of the world has opposite magnetic force, so toilets and typhoons rotate opposite the America side??
Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2019, 07:33:19 pm »
WOW!!  Member, that makes perfect sense; condensed, direct to the point.  I like it.  So a slow moving storm is bad news in a way on the port side, Florida.  The other side of the world has opposite magnetic force, so toilets and typhoons rotate opposite the America side??
Van
True, the southern hemisphere has opposite magnetic force, but that's not what's really at play here, since the storm isn't made of metal.  :cheesy:  It's actually a phenomenon called the Coriolis effect.  Because the earth moves underneath weather systems, it causes them to be deflected to the right in the northern hemisphere and to the left in the southern hemisphere.  Here's a good article/video from NatGeo that explains it in more depth.  The toilet water thing is actually a myth, since the Coriolis effect is only noticeable on the macro scale.  It's just a difference in toilet manufacturing. 
 
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/coriolis-effect/
 
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2019, 09:16:36 pm »
Member,
Good explanation.
Van,
Another factor dealing with being on the port, left, side of a hurricane is the amount of rain that it drops. During Irma, as the storm approached, we received 10 inches of rain. The eye of the storm went right over me. Blue skies for about an hour.  After it passed, we did not receive any significant amount of rain. The port side and stern are usually much dryer than the right side and front side.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2019, 09:48:55 pm »
So I now understand why a gulf hurricane somewhere between Texas and Florida is really bad news as the starboard side, right side, will make land.  There is such a wealth of knowledge on Beemaster!
Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2019, 09:59:04 pm »
Also when a hurricane is coming in off the ocean, it lifts the ocean water and pushes it on the starboard side. This creates a storm surge which usually causes the most damage as a hurricane hits land fall. The wall of water can be really tall, fast moving and can destroy everything in its path.
Jim Altmiller
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Ben Franklin

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2019, 10:46:16 pm »


And when that big storm surge hits sand, it liquifies the sand.  Just in the same way your feet sink into the sand when a wave hits them. 

As the wave retreats, it pulls away roads, rock bulkheads, and retaining walls.  People call it under scour or flood scour.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2019, 08:50:59 am »
So explain the logic of building structures within 300 ft of a shoreline.  Nature has done this for millions of years.  The largest problem is humans keep building structures on the shoreline.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2019, 10:31:53 am »
Jim, FloridaG. Thanks for the info, that is taking the time to explain.  Living in the Rockies, Montana, I was far removed from hurricanes or tornadoes and any worries of.  My concerns, or worries were wild fires, avalanche, freezing. 
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2019, 12:10:37 pm »
So explain the logic of building structures within 300 ft of a shoreline.  Nature has done this for millions of years.  The largest problem is humans keep building structures on the shoreline.

Good point Ace, I suppose the beauty of the shoreline meeting the beauty of the open sea or gulf is just too strong of a magnet that continues to pull folks to such wonderful to the eye beauty, peace and  tranquility, that it is just too strong and hard to resist in spite of logic. ?? Sort on like being hypnotized  to the potential danger?
Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2019, 12:39:28 pm »
So explain the logic of building structures within 300 ft of a shoreline.  Nature has done this for millions of years.  The largest problem is humans keep building structures on the shoreline.

Good point Ace, I suppose the beauty of the shoreline meeting the beauty of the open sea or gulf is just too strong of a magnet that continues to pull folks to such wonderful to the eye beauty, peace and  tranquility, that it is just too strong and hard to resist in spite of logic. ?? Sort on like being hypnotized  to the potential danger?
Phillip

Okay, but what about all the people who get wiped out and rebuild on the same site?  Seems to me those places should be uninsurable, so that if their house gets washed away once and they want to rebuild they have to pay 100% of the cost.  And if they hunker down in place when a storm like this one threatens and they have to be rescued, they would have to pay the costs of their rescue. I?m thinking about New Orleans as an example of the latter. There were people there who refused to board the buses that would take them to safety when Katrina was coming.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2019, 12:54:22 pm »
So explain the logic of building structures within 300 ft of a shoreline.  Nature has done this for millions of years.  The largest problem is humans keep building structures on the shoreline.

Good point Ace, I suppose the beauty of the shoreline meeting the beauty of the open sea or gulf is just too strong of a magnet that continues to pull folks to such wonderful to the eye beauty, peace and  tranquility, that it is just too strong and hard to resist in spite of logic. ?? Sort on like being hypnotized  to the potential danger?
Phillip

Okay, but what about all the people who get wiped out and rebuild on the same site?  Seems to me those places should be uninsurable, so that if their house gets washed away once and they want to rebuild they have to pay 100% of the cost.  And if they hunker down in place when a storm like this one threatens and they have to be rescued, they would have to pay the costs of their rescue. I?m thinking about New Orleans as an example of the latter. There were people there who refused to board the buses that would take them to safety when Katrina was coming.

Quote from Dallas
Very good point. If the insurance companies want to re-Isure them then ok. But, if not, insurance should not be required to re-instate for that same property weather it be the original inhabitants, or newcomers to same property, and only once by the taxpayer under disaster relief, of said property, after which no future tax payer money should be involved for said address of such property.  In other words, the homeowner is on his own when taxpayer money is involved after the  first relief effort
of  same property. At least within so many feet of the shoreline.
Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2019, 01:08:20 pm »
This storm is now a very strong category 5. 180 mile an hour sustained winds, 220 mile an hour gusts. If my memory is correct, 200 mil an hour winds, that is the speed of most tornadoes, puts several tons of pressure on the side of a house trying, I should say, knocking it down. This is what is hitting the center of the Bahamas right now. To make things worse, the surge is 18 to 22 feet which will over flow large areas of the Bahamas. Adding to that it is a very slow moving storm, 6 miles per hour. That means these winds just keep tearing things apart in one direction and then as it passes it takes all of that debris and picks it up and what is remaining gets shredded by tons of flying material.
Pray for the people in the Bahamas.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2019, 01:50:07 pm »
Jim, I listened to the Weather channel: LARGEST EVER TO HIT BAHAMAS.  Dorian has turned into a monster.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2019, 02:21:23 pm »
Just finished my hurricane prep and only need to fill up my water jugs and buckets. I'm recycling all the spring water bottles by refilling them with tap water. Kind of a no brainer if you think about it.
     Trimmed back the queen palms out front to protect them from the wind, we had one palm have it's heart broken out last storm. The tree people recommended trimming their tops to keep it from happening again.
  All boarded up and have braced the shop door with two diagonal lengths of 2x4 for extra support in it's center which is a weak spot with wind.  Not sure what else to do now but wait and try not to worry.
  Still looking at two more days before Dorian is supposed to hit. Getting a little burned out by all the hurricane coverage in the news. 

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2019, 03:20:50 pm »
I just looked up the formula for pounds per square foot.
It is:
.00256x(wind speed in mph)squared.
That means
25 mph puts 1.6 pounds per square foot.
50 mph puts 6.4 pounds per square foot.
100 mph puts 25.2 pounds per square foot.
200 mph puts 102.4 pounds per square foot.
On the front side of a house that is 8 foot tall by 75 feet long, that is:
960 pounds of pressure at 25 miles per hour.
3,840 pounds of pressure at 50 miles per hour.
15,360 pounds of pressure at 100 miles per hour.
And
61,440 pounds of pressure at 200 miles per hour.
That is over 30 tons of force trying to knock your house over.
If that was a 2 story home, it would bee more than double that.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2019, 09:59:21 pm »
I just looked up the formula for pounds per square foot.
It is:
.00256x(wind speed in mph)squared.
That means
25 mph puts 1.6 pounds per square foot.
50 mph puts 6.4 pounds per square foot.
100 mph puts 25.2 pounds per square foot.
200 mph puts 102.4 pounds per square foot.
On the front side of a house that is 8 foot tall by 75 feet long, that is:
960 pounds of pressure at 25 miles per hour.
3,840 pounds of pressure at 50 miles per hour.
15,360 pounds of pressure at 100 miles per hour.
And
61,440 pounds of pressure at 200 miles per hour.
That is over 30 tons of force trying to knock your house over.
If that was a 2 story home, it would bee more than double that.
Jim Altmiller

Very good information Jim.      Goodness...
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Florida and states north get ready for Dorian.
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2019, 01:18:18 am »
I just looked up the formula for pounds per square foot.
It is:
.00256x(wind speed in mph)squared.
That means
25 mph puts 1.6 pounds per square foot.
50 mph puts 6.4 pounds per square foot.
100 mph puts 25.2 pounds per square foot.
200 mph puts 102.4 pounds per square foot.
On the front side of a house that is 8 foot tall by 75 feet long, that is:
960 pounds of pressure at 25 miles per hour.
3,840 pounds of pressure at 50 miles per hour.
15,360 pounds of pressure at 100 miles per hour.
And
61,440 pounds of pressure at 200 miles per hour.
That is over 30 tons of force trying to knock your house over.
If that was a 2 story home, it would bee more than double that.
Jim Altmiller
Amazing.  :shocked:  :sad:
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

 

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