Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Ben Framed on November 15, 2019, 12:21:22 pm
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I realize Queen excluders come in different materials such as metal and plastic. Some I presume, are made in America, some in other countries such as China. The question is, are the gaps of the excluders the same? Is one type better than others? Any particular brand stand out as superior? Different opinions welcome.
Phillip
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For 1st and second year beekeepers, maybe even third, any of them will kill a hive sufficiently.
For more experienced keeps, any of them can be used profitably.
The wire ones are easily bent, thus allowing the queen through.
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The plastic ones that I have seen are nothing but junk. Buy a wood bound metal excluder if you have no wood working tools and can not cut strips to add to the upper side of the metal bound ones to aid in having proper bee space. With all bee equipment care must be used not to damage the equipment so it will work properly.
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Thanks fellows. I appreciate your answers. If my bees make it through the winter, I have resolved to using Queen Excluders next season. While it is off season, I figured now would be a good time to stock up. But; I do not want to kill my hives sufficiently, efficiently, or any other way. lol
I appreciate the heads up on excluder danger iddee. What is it that I need to know in order to use the excluders the right way?
Again Thanks,
Phillip
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Remember to remove it before winter. As the cluster eats and moves up into the supers, the queen is left below the excluder to die.
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Remember to remove it before winter. As the cluster eats and moves up into the supers, the queen is left below the excluder to die.
👍🏻 Thanks
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I would hold off on using them until the hive reaches critical size. It is imperative to know where the queen is before placement.
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The QE is an invaluable hive management tool.
No, they are not all the same. Asian strain Cerana bees are smaller, and thusly so are their QE equipment being sold. Also the size of comb, foundation, you use determines to some extent the size of your bees. Eg: My heavy haulers do not fit through those basic cheap plastic QE?s. Also newbees be aware that some propolis mats are erroneously marketed as QE.
If you want to buy the right ones, want to buy once, then invest in Steel only and buy them only from a reputable supplier local to you. The bees flow through a proper quality steel QE like it is not there at all. Except the queen, of course.
Imho.
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No expert here, however: I don't use them on the Lang hives because -surprise! - sometimes there's brood in a super for a month. That's ok by me, I'm just the landlord, and the tenants have the right to use all the premises.
But I do find a lightweight plastic one helpful for handling a swarm or cutout. It can keep a queen in, while the workers march in to her. There's no need for a steel one if used only for that reason.
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I Thank each of you for your answers on this subject. I am buying for the long haul. Diversified applications and uses form different points of view are also appreciated FG. Mr HP I am going to start similar topic about propolis traps as this is also something I am interested in.
Thanks again all,
Phillip
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We use Chinese made steel QX's, plastic ones warp eventually and bees tend to over wax them and so they stick to the super.
I have replaced all the plastic QX's supplied with the Paradise hives with steel ones.
As we don't have snow etc in Winter our bees winter in full depth singles or doubles and so the QX's stay with them all the time.
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We use Chinese made steel QX's, plastic ones warp eventually and bees tend to over wax them and so they stick to the super.
I have replaced all the plastic QX's supplied with the Paradise hives with steel ones.
As we don't have snow etc in Winter our bees winter in full depth singles or doubles and so the QX's stay with them all the time.
Thanks Oldbeavo, good information.
Phillip
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Hiya Phillip, great question and replies.
I?d like to add a couple of things. Down here we don?t have wood bound ones and I?d expect they help with bee spacing as the flat ones we use here I am constantly rotating out to clean the burr comb off.
I have 2 types, one where the wires are fused to the perpendicular wires which makes scraping a bit bothersome and the other only has wire in one direction and actually goes through profiled perpendicular sections which keeps the surface fairly flat and easier to clean up. (I actually use a solar melter to clean up now)
Both of the metal types have c section metal binding which is a SHB hidey hole apparently.
I?d add photos but have given up trying to attach on this forum.
I?m interested in the wooden bound ones though and am curious as to whether they get as much as the flat metal ones.
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Hiya Phillip, great question and replies.
I?d like to add a couple of things. Down here we don?t have wood bound ones and I?d expect they help with bee spacing as the flat ones we use here I am constantly rotating out to clean the burr comb off.
I have 2 types, one where the wires are fused to the perpendicular wires which makes scraping a bit bothersome and the other only has wire in one direction and actually goes through profiled perpendicular sections which keeps the surface fairly flat and easier to clean up. (I actually use a solar melter to clean up now)
Both of the metal types have c section metal binding which is a SHB hidey hole apparently.
I?d add photos but have given up trying to attach on this forum.
I?m interested in the wooden bound ones though and am curious as to whether they get as much as the flat metal ones.
Thanks Skeggley! More good information from you.
I had the problem as trying to post pictures here also. FINALLY I gave up on the resizeit app and tried the ReSizer App. Got it first time, after previously trying the resizeit app spending much frustrating time wasted, along with many tries and everyway that I could imagine as the instructions did not work. ReSizer is very simple. I actually use ReSizer from my phone. Easy as 1,2, 3. There are two size set lines.
Top line, Size I set as following { Size 181 px(h) }
Bottom sizing line I set at { Quality 100% }
I hope that helps. If you need more help I will gladly assist you, just let me know and I will help you anyway that I can.
Again thanks,
Phillip
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Besides type and quality, I believe they also may differ in size of slat spacing. This hasn't happened to me, but I have read posts from people who purchase online from overseas (China) to get cheap QE's and have found that their bar spacing is different and geared towards Asian sized bees as opposed to European sized bees like what we typically keep. I don't remember if they were larger or smaller slat spacing. Maybe someone else can chime in, but I believe this to be the case.
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Besides type and quality, I believe they also may differ in size of slat spacing. This hasn't happened to me, but I have read posts from people who purchase online from overseas (China) to get cheap QE's and have found that their bar spacing is different and geared towards Asian sized bees as opposed to European sized bees like what we typically keep. I don't remember if they were larger or smaller slat spacing. Maybe someone else can chime in, but I believe this to be the case.
I am thinking you are probably correct. Last Spring, really late last winter, I ordered some pollen traps directly from China and I was excited about this. The price was right. The problem was my bees could not get through the openings. I finally gave up and put them in storage. With this information that you and Honey Pump have given me about different size openings for Asian bees, I feel like this must?ve been the problem. I really appreciate each comment here. I have again learned something by asking and getting You all?s Feedback.
Thanks, Phillip
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I think some folks are overthinking the burr comb issue.
Yes they will put burr comb on some portion of the QE...but after experimenting this year what i found was they eventully stop, and leave the rest open. I now only scrape a QE when I harvest the honey supers above it, or when i remove it.
Barry
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I think some folks are overthinking the burr comb issue.
Yes they will put burr comb on some portion of the QE...but after experimenting this year what i found was they eventully stop, and leave the rest open. I now only scrape a QE when I harvest the honey supers above it, or when i remove it.
Barry
I appreciate you sharing your experience of burr comb on the excluder. Actually I do not think anyone here was ''overthinking the burr comb issue''? Burr comb was mentioned by Skeggley, and Oldbeavo mentioned the problems that he has had with ''warpage'' that has led to over waxing and of plastic chinese excluders. I do know that Oldbeavo gives excellent and accurate information. It is well to pay attention to what he says. Let me ask you, what type excluder do you use, metal, plastic, Chinese, American? Have you experimented with different types? Your answer may help with the question of the post. Thanks for your reply,
Phillip
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All of the unbound queen excluders have a minimum bee space below (1/4") and no bee space above (only 1/8"). So they get badly gummed up by burr comb. The bound excluder has a bee space above (usually 3/8") and excess bee space below (usually about 1/2").
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All of the unbound queen excluders have a minimum bee space below (1/4") and no bee space above (only 1/8"). So they get badly gummed up by burr comb. The bound excluder has a bee space above (usually 3/8") and excess bee space below (usually about 1/2").
Very good information Mr Bush. Thank you for shedding light on this. This information complements what AR Beekeeper was saying in post number 2 as for the use metal bound excluders.
Phillip
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Steel bars with wooden frame, but I have no idea where manufacture took place. they are from either Kelly, Dadant, or BetterBee...don't remember.
What I meant by over thinking should probably have been over worrying! A lazier approach all this year did fine. Last year I scraped those things clear every time I went in. This year, very rarely. They did just fine.
I kind of think this- They are not going to close off the access to their own honey stores. or said differently...Burr comb seems to bother us far more than it bothers them.
My final calculations was that the amount of damage I was doing by removing the thing to clean it constantly was worse for them that even a 1/2 way sealed up QE.
They really didn't seem affected at all.
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Bees wax up parts of the QX but leave enough open to get through. In winter you will find more waxing, especially around the center, bit of a self made hive mat, but is removed by the bees in spring.
We hardly ever scrape a QX, unnecessary work and risk of damaging bars. When you remove the QX put it back the in the same position so as the burr wax is in the same position.
Qx's that are removed from deadouts or for what ever reason are cleaned in winter by dipping in hot water.
Michael is right, if you leave the right distance from the top of the frame to the bars of the QX then the bees use it for travelling space and so don't wax it up as much.
Even though the Chinese QX's are steel bound, if you put them cross/supporting bars down you will get about the right space. Our frames are about 1/8" below the top of the super.
I am with Honey Pump, an essential of efficient part of bee keeping.