Robbing and Bee Identification

[Pond Creek Farm]

My son and I were in the field today checking out our one hive.  It was given to us by a friend who thought the colony dead due to starvation, but we found that it has quite a few bees and quite a bit of honey in it. We named the hive Phoenix.  I do not have a bee suit yet, (I'm 6'7" 250lbs and need it specially made), so I have not opened it to see how things are deeper into the hive.  It was too windy today in any event.  I have opened the top super which is a medium on top of two deeps, and it was full of honey.

We have detected what we think to be robbing.  (lots of fighting at the entrance, dead bees outside, side to side apprach by some bees, etc.)  I have the entrance reduced down, and can really think of nothing else to do.  Our bees seem to be Italians.  They are have yellow abdomens with black stripes.  We saw them today bringing in lots of bright tellow pollen (very cool to watch).  The robbers do not look like our bees.  They are almost black in the abdomen.  Any idea what kind of bees these are?  Are they simply variants of Italians?  My son swears they are German bees, but I cannot find a picture on the net of anything but Italians.  Any ideas?

We also put out an empty deep with several frames (not quite ten because I do not have any more at the moment), an inner and outer cover and a bottom board.  We thought that since this stuff was just sitting around, it might be nice if some wandering swarm took up residence.  I am hopeful that this happens.  My sons and I like the idea of home-grown bees. 

Brian

[annette]

Seems sort of unusual to have robbing this time of year. Are you sure the side to side flight of the robbers was not just bees doing orientation flights? That is when bees that haven't flown yet come out and fly in front of the hive, they make circles while looking at the hive. They are remembering the position of the hive so they can come home when they start to forage.

They may have been doing housecleaning also, hence the dead bees on the ground. Any bees that died in the hive are dragged out by the housecleaning bees and they dump them on the ground. There could be quite a pile sometimes.

Sometimes when they are getting out on a warm day the front landing could look sort of frenzied as bees are going in and out really fast. It could look sort of like a fight, but when you really look, you see the bees are actually peaceful on the landing.  When they are fighting, you will see bees tumbling around with each other. They fight to the death. What exactly did it look like??

As for the different colored bees. One hive can have many different colored bees. The queen mates with many drones and you usually end up with a mixture of different colored bees in one hive.

Anyway, perhaps you are correct about the robbing, but look again and make sure.

Good Luck, I am sure you will get more responses soon.
Sincerely
Annette from Placerville California

[johnnybigfish]

Hi Brian!
Try to get some more frames so your boxes will be full. If you dont and some bees move in they'll clog it up with crooked comb and its a terrible job getting the frames apart. I had (actually have) a mess like this in my first 2 hives and I only left out one frame...I didnt know any better but i do now!
your friend,
john

[Pond Creek Farm]

I am picking the new frames up tomorrow at the local hardware store (but given that snow is in our forecast, I likely have a bit of time).  I was worried that any bees that took up residence would make quite the mess without frames.   Annette, I very likely could be wrong on the robbing, having never seen robbing, I am doing nothing more than making inferences based on what I have read it might look like.  Likewiese, I have never observed normal bee behavior either, so I relly have no frame of reference.  That said,  it looked like the yellow one were wrestling pretty hard with the dark ones.  They did this on the landing board and then tunbled to the ground below.  I saw some bees carrying others away from the hive too, and was curious about this as well.  I am sure that I will learn whether this is normal or not over time, but seeing them bring in pollen was the highlight of our day. 

Brian

[Kathyp]

also, check out some of the beekeeping supply places online.  you probably don't need a full bee suit.  a jacket with zip hood would do.  they are not to expensive.

[johnnybigfish]

hey Brian,
 Sounds like the same weather we're fixing to get. What we have just to the west of us is traveling right towards you! Typical spring stuff...storms and rotation!
 I just planted tomatoes and peppers this morning..I should've known better...Its abouit 80 degrees right now and tomorrow we're gonna have snow and rain(so they say), then for the next four or five nights its supposed to be freezing!
Anyways, it looks like you'll have good weather to stay inside and make frames!!
 I do like Kathy mentioned..I just have the jacket with a zip on/off veil. Actually, most the time I dont wear the protective stuff....But I do run away more than some people!
your friend,
john

[JP]

also, check out some of the beekeeping supply places online.  you probably don't need a full bee suit.  a jacket with zip hood would do.  they are not to expensive.

I agree with the Jacket and zippered veil idea. This is what I use exclusively. I get mine from Dadant. I get it two sizes bigger, you'll appreciate the extra room, trust me. If you have bees that are tustling with each other it could very well be robbing. The ones with the darker abdomens could be from a feral hive in your area. I would put out a swarm trap when your season starts to kick in. If its robbing, take one of the honey frames from the medium if you can spare it, and place it away from the hive, say 75 yards or so. You could lure the robbing hive away from yours. Then put out some sugar water feed for them. You may need to put an entrance reducer on your robbed hives to keep the robbers out.

Also, as Johhny has mentioned don't put out a hive with frames missing as you will wind up with an unworkable mess if a swarm does enter. Hope this helps. Those before me have given you good advice.

....JP

[Pond Creek Farm]

I will look for the jacket;  that seems like a good idea and a lot easier that totally suiting up.  When this snow, storm, flood thing that is on its way to the Ozarks has passed, I will move a frame of honey and put a hive top feeder with some syrup out.  I will put it up by the barn for easy refill, but it will be a clean 100 yds from the hive.  Thanks for the advice.  I need to research swarm traps as JP's post was the first time I had seen the term. I really appreciate all the helpful advice.

[tillie]

Sometimes when the bees are carrying out the weak-soon-to-die bees, there is a sort of struggle between the mortician bee and the still-alive but soon to die bee.  I've often seen it at my hives. 

In the end the weaker bee gets left to die.  This could look like a struggle and not be robbing.  I don't imagine it is really robbing when you are not in the middle of honey season.

Good luck with your bees,

Linda T in Atlanta

[JP]

Robbing will occur more during a dearth.

....JP

[beekeeperookie]

well the only way to really tell is to open the hive and see whats going on inside whenever you get a chance

[Cindi]

PondCreekFarm.  I have to chime in and I disagree with what is being said about the robbing.  If this colony is weak, it will have a tendency to have robbing occurring.  That can happen any time of the year, but is more commonly found during a dearth period, yes, of course.

When colonies are being robbed, it is a very noticeable thing.  You will see bees look like they are having a wrestling match.  Tumbling about, fighting, very discernable and it can be very serious.  Colonies can be robbed out and starve.  If the numbers are low, and it sounds like the numbers are, your friend thought that the colony was dead.  You need to act quickly.  You have reduced the entrance, that is good, but you must go into higher gear with this.

You can even close off the lower entrance completely for a couple of days.  There are many ideas about how to prevent robbers from getting in.  Michael Bush's site has some extremely helpful information.  You need to get this hive protected, it can't protect itself right now from bees that have found an easy source of honey, already cured.

Go to Michael Bush's site about robbing......

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm

Good luck, I don't want to put a downer on things, but if there is a robbing situation going on, you need to act now....don't wait, it will be too late, this is reality with the bees.  Have a beautiful, and awesome day, Cindi

This is a screen that my Husband made for me, but you don't need something as elaborate right now, just something quick and simple to help them out.  The bees inside find the way out, the robber bees have a more difficult time to get in.  There are many other quick apparatus type things that can be made easily.



This robber screen is good too, it was just some mosquito netting stapled onto a frame, the robbers have a hard time trying to get in because they have to enter through the sides, it worked pretty good too.

It was the end of May, I had just hived 4 packages of bees and got 4 nucs, there was one colony that was weaker and it had an issue with robbing for sure!!!!