New beekeeper with question about hive differences and box placement

[Ibmerlin]

Hello all,

I am a new beekeeper this year. All my equipment is 8 frame mediums. I started with two hives and installed packages on April 27. Last week I added a third box to both hives. Hive A has done very well, all frames were drawn out except 1 and 8 of the second box. All the brood were in the first level and only honey in the second. There where many bees also. Hive B had not done nearly as well. Frame 1 and 8 on the first box had barely been touched and only the middle 4 frames of the second box were drawn out. There did not seem to be as many bees also in hive B. One good thing that I noticed in hive B was that there were brood cells in both boxes and brood in all stages of development.

Since adding the third box I have noticed hive A is much more active than B and is starting to beard more and more. This has me worried on two fronts. Is hive B failing? Is hive A to hot? Both hives have screened bottom boards.

With Hive A should I move the new box to the bottom? Would this get the bees to start brood in this box?

Is this difference in hives something that I should be concerned about?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Merlin

[sc-bee]

Some hives are just better producers than others. Some are late starters.

Bees beard when hot. Crack the lid a little to cause a draft. Have you checked the brood boxes to see if they have space?

Type of feed to use. Of course leaving honey is the best. As far as starting new packages. There is a debate now about sugar vs HFCS etc. Sucrose (granulated sugar) is now thought to be best by most. The HFCS may go through a heat cycle in storage tanks and cause a chemical change. So the controversy says.

[indypartridge]

I started with two hives and installed packages on April 27. ... Last week I added a third box to both hives. ... Hive B had not done nearly as well. Frame 1 and 8 on the first box had barely been touched and only the middle 4 frames of the second box were drawn out. There did not seem to be as many bees also in hive B. One good thing that I noticed in hive B was that there were brood cells in both boxes and brood in all stages of development.

One reason you'll nearly always see beekeepers recommend that newbees start out with two hives is because there are always differences. That's what you're seeing. If your "B" is halfway thru drawing out comb on the 2nd box, they're doing okay. Not great, not bad. The rule of thumb is to wait until comb is drawn out on 80% of the frames before adding another box, so you may have jumped the gun adding the third box to hive B. You didn't mention feeding, but I always feed a new colony until they have two deeps drawn out. If you're doing mediums, I'd suggest feeding until they have 3 mediums drawn out. Also, you can swap the untouched frames 1 & 8 with 2 & 7 to get them to draw them out.

Bearding is normal for a healthy hive on hot days. As was suggested, you can take a twig and prop open the top cover a bit for added ventilation.

With Hive a should I move the new box to the bottom? Would this get the bees to start brood in this box?

Some beeks take a frame or two of brood from the bottom box and swap them with frames from the box above to 'encourage' them to move up.

[G3farms]

Others will chime in on this since I do not use screened bottom boards. You say you use the screened bottom board, but to me it looks like your hives are sitting on solid wood for a hive stand, is this not defeating the purpose of the screened bottom board? Just thinking out loud here.

Different hives will work at diferent rates, I have a nuc that is killing me because they are so slow to build comb, and a hive beside of them (from a swarm caught on 4/29) is going like gang busters, have robbed out three frames of capped brood for other hives.

Good luck with them.

G3

after going back a looking at your pic I see the bottom of the hive stand is slotted. Are you having skunk problems? i see you have a fence charger on the front of your hives.

[sc-bee]

>You say you use the screened bottom board, but to me it looks like your hives are sitting on solid wood for a hive stand, is this not defeating the purpose of the screened bottom board?

Good catch ---- it does defeat the IPM of the SBB.

AS stated above ---- give them time. My hives were slow at building up this year. Most of the local beekeepers say the same. Maybe just a region thing. We had too much rain.

Always too much or not enough, never satisfied :-D

[Ibmerlin]

after going back a looking at your pic I see the bottom of the hive stand is slotted. Are you having skunk problems? i see you have a fence charger on the front of your hives.

I live on the edge of a heavily wooded area. I built the stand expecting to have skunk problems. It is slotted for ventilation. The straps were installed a few days after the bees arrived due to raccoons trying to remove the covers. Some time later something started scratching at the entrances and pulling out the reducers so the solar fence was installed. That seemed to work so far.

One reason you'll nearly always see beekeepers recommend that newbees start out with two hives is because there are always differences. That's what you're seeing. If your "B" is halfway thru drawing out comb on the 2nd box, they're doing okay. Not great, not bad. The rule of thumb is to wait until comb is drawn out on 80% of the frames before adding another box, so you may have jumped the gun adding the third box to hive B. You didn't mention feeding, but I always feed a new colony until they have two deeps drawn out. If you're doing mediums, I'd suggest feeding until they have 3 mediums drawn out.

Yes, I think that I added the third box a bit early in the second hive. We are leaving for vacation soon and I thought it better to add sooner rather than to later. I will keep the 80% rule of thumb in mind next time.

As for feeding.... This is where I may be doing something wrong.  I used top feeders and sugar water. By the end of the first month nether hive were feeding from the feeders. They seemed more content with what they were gathering. I went as far as to mark the level of the feeders and it seemed little or no difference than the time before. Mold started to appear on the sugar water so I stopped feeding. The abundance of  honey in both hives had lead me to believe they were doing fine foraging. Was I mistaken? should I reinstall the feeders?


Thank you again
Merlin

[indypartridge]

Yes, I think that I added the third box a bit early in the second hive. We are leaving for vacation soon and I thought it better to add sooner rather than to later.

I agree.

As for feeding.... This is where I may be doing something wrong.  I used top feeders and sugar water. By the end of the first month nether hive were feeding from the feeders.  Was I mistaken? should I reinstall the feeders?

This probably isn't an issue of right/wrong as much as just being different ways to do things. Many beeks stop feeding when they stop taking it. I tend to leave it available because invariably we'll have a few weeks (like now) where it's rainy and I want them to stay busy building comb. You are basically in the same climate as me, and the main focus for new hive is to have them built up (2 deeps/3 meds) with about 80lbs of honey reserves by late fall. I've had years where the feeders come off in spring and are stored for a year, and years where the feeders stay on all summer and into the fall. Just depends.

[sc-bee]

>I used top feeders and sugar water. By the end of the first month nether hive were feeding from the feeders. They seemed more content with what they were gathering. I went as far as to mark the level of the feeders and it seemed little or no difference than the time
>Was I mistaken? should I reinstall the feeders?

No , they will abandon the feeders for natural nectar. Remove feeders during a flow. If you need more stores after flow or during a dearth reinstall feeders. Remove them again if you have a fall flow :-D

[Ibmerlin]

I just want to that you all for your replies and advice. As a new beekeeper its nice to know there is a place one can go for information, encouragement, or just to be calmed down when the apprehension of learning a new craft takes hold. 

Merlin

[indypartridge]

I just want to that you all for your replies and advice. As a new beekeeper its nice to know there is a place one can go for information, encouragement, or just to be calmed down when the apprehension of learning a new craft takes hold. 

Merlin,

Just as an aside, if you haven't found one already, I recommend getting involved with a local beekeeping club. Clubs are great places to find mentors and get connected to local beekeepers. Much beekeeping knowledge is "location specific",  so it's worthwhile to know nearby beeks and tap into that knowledge.
http://www.isba.us/index.affiliate.htm

[Ibmerlin]

Just as an aside, if you haven't found one already, I recommend getting involved with a local beekeeping club. Clubs are great places to find mentors and get connected to local beekeepers. Much beekeeping knowledge is "location specific",  so it's worthwhile to know nearby beeks and tap into that knowledge.
http://www.isba.us/index.affiliate.htm

 It would seem that I live in a beekeeping black hole, void of any clubs or groups within a practical driving distance. I have subscribed to mags and bought many books, But books are a pale substitute to learning from a seasoned keeper.

I will keep my eyes and ears open. Thanks again for the replies and help.

[mtbe]

Merlin,

There is another new beekeeper in Ottawa.  We can learn together.

I also met an experienced beekeeper just S. of us.  We've visited twice now, for about 30 min each, and the information has helped confirm what I was doing, or what I should have done....  He may be able to help.

I know of another beekeeper trying to start a group in Yorkville too.  Don't know how far he got.

mtbe

[Natalie]

Aw, now that is cool, see how this forum can hook you up with people that you didn't even know existed?
You guys are right in the same town/city, good for you. Maybe you can get a club going.